Norm's Onion Rolls &, at no extra charge, Kaiser Rolls.

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dmsnyder on 5 Oct 2008 at 21:42

Norm's Onion Rolls

Norm's Onion Rolls

 Norm's Kaiser Rolls: These Kaiser Rolls (AKA hard rolls, vienna rolls, bulkies) were made with the same dough used for onion rolls.

Norm's Kaiser Rolls: These Kaiser Rolls (AKA hard rolls, vienna rolls, bulkies) were made with the same dough used for onion rolls.

I didn't grow up in New York. We did have a Jewish Bakery in Fresno when I was younger. They got me addicted to Sour Rye and Jewish Corn Rye and pumpernickel and cheese pockets. They made onion rolls, too, but I never liked them much. They were fluffy with a boring crust and no "tam."

 The carryings on about how wonderful onion rolls used to be by folks on TFL who hail from NYC and environs made me think maybe I'd missed something, so when Norm posted his formula, I thought I should try making them. I got distracted by other baking projects, but the recent postings about these rolls re-activated my intention to make them. Thanks to Eric, Elgins, RFMonaco and Eli. I am delighted to join you!

These onion rolls are, as Norm said, "only onion rolls." Yeah. Like a stradivarius is "only a fiddle." 

 Kaiser rolls are made from the same dough as onion rolls. What is most different is the elaborate shaping. Ever since I read Greenstein's description of the old-time bakers sitting around the bench "klopping" hundreds of vienna rolls every night for the breakfast rush, I've wanted to try doing this. Well, the rolls are delicious, with a substantial crust and  sweet, chewy crumb. We had them tonight with "hamburgers" made with ground chicken. These are not your fast food joint's soggy, tasteless buns. What they really need is a pile of thin sliced juicy roast beef, or roasted brisket, better yet, or maybe chopped liver. 

My klopping needs some work. They will be prettier next time, but I can't really imagine them tasting better.

The hamburger was good. But the best part of dinner was dessert - An onion roll sliced in half with sweet butter.

Thanks, Norm! 

 FYI, all the rolls were scaled to 2.55 oz. I think this was just right for the onion rolls. Next time I make Kaiser Rolls, I think I will scale them to 3 oz.

David 

They look so great, David, that I can almost smell them.  Love the shape of that "smiley."

 

What are you going to do with 2 oz of leftover dough that looks too good to throw out? I made a micro-bâtard and bent it into a curve. It got eaten while the rest of dinner was cooking, of course.
David

Those look great David! That's that convection air blowing around. Did you do anything differently to the tops?

Eric 

Eric, See the photo of my second batch of onion rolls which I baked tonight. (They are addicting!) The crust was thinner and less crisp. I let them proof a little longer. The crumb was more tender and fluffier, but I did substitute bread flour for 1/3 of the high gluten flour too. This was a larger batch than the last, and the rolls were more crowded on the baking stone. I think that did make a substantial difference in the crust. In any case, these were delicious with dinner. We'll see how they are after freezing.
David
Onion rolls, take 2 Onion rolls, take 2  Onion rolls crumb Onion rolls crumb   I had to make another batch. These go to LA for my father-in-law who thinks he gets good onion rolls at his local bakeries. Ha! David

I've been working toward making these rolls and have been looking over all the old info about them since I had a few questions. My current one is, did the video ever get made of the "klopping" was it? Jean P. (VA)

I've watched that video a dozen times and using whole fine ground sifted rye, I can't seem to get the folds to show after baking. It must be the white rye flour works better. My left thumb is getting thinner at the end, lol.

Eric

I found the dough shape held better keeping the dough hydration low. not to exceed 50%.   If the dough moisture is too high when this shape is flipped upside down to rise, the seams grow together.  If I flip the roll over sooner to get a little bit more rise on the right-side-up part of the proof, the folds swell up more. 

tip: with the last tuck it helps to "roll in the collar" where the thumb was keeping the opening open.  Helps to tighten up the seal.  I find my thumb stretches the single thickness opening edge too thin.   Physically it is correct to do so.  When thinking about the other folds, they are all double thickness except the last one.