I can get a renewed/refub'ed Kitchenaid 600 Stand Mixer for $279 from Amazon.
Should a newbie bread maker buy this?
The Amazon Q/A mentions having to replace gears and maybe bearings after heavy bread use. Does this sound real to you? Is this something one does or are there fix-em-up places that work on counter top appliances like this?
Alternate suggestions gratefully accepted.
Looks like that's a standard refurb price, judging by my quick search search. $279 here too.
https://www.everythingkitchens.com/refurbished-kitchenaid-pro-600-6qt-bowl-lift-empire-red-rkp26m1xer.html
I owned two refurbished KA Pros when I had my candy shop, sold in 1998. I kept one and gave it to a friend in 2004. It's still going strong. I think they do a pretty good job of fixing them up.
Kitchenaid used to have an online refurbished store but stock was always changing. I think you could feel confident getting the refurb model. Go with whoever you feel confident in and whoever has the best shipping.
Dave
Costco sells them new. The new ones have metal gears. For a while they were using nylon gears, hence all the refurbs you see on the market. Sale price at Costco is 329.
Excellent point. I would never know if the refurb had metal gears. However, I don't see them at the Costco.com online website.
I recently grabbed a Williams Sonoma bread machine off Craigs List (WS0598). Maybe I'll try that first and grab the Stand Mixer if I want to do bread old school. There are so many uses for the stand mixer though ...
Good evening,
I’m a heavy user of KAs for pastry. I own a Pro with the 7Qt bowl and I wouldn’t change it for a dozen Bosch or any other brand you might fancy. They’re THE tool of the pastry chef and you will see them in pastry labs and pastry schools the world over (I’m professionally trained in pastry, I can tell you the KA Pros are everywhere on the 5 continents). BUT (big but) KAs are only somewhat useful for bread making. Let me try to summarize why:
1) A planetary (stand) mixer, such as a KA, equipped with a dough hook does not develop gluten in a bread dough as efficiently as spiral or arm mixers. This translates into higher mixing times if you’re trying to develop full gluten on the KA (can go into the 20+ minutes) and an overheating of the dough as a consequence. Overheated (and over oxidized) dough has an impact on taste and bulk fermentation, and in the end on how your end product will look like. If you’re looking to bake open crumb breads, using a KA is, in my humble opinion, at the exact opposite of what you need and you’ll be frustrated and disenchanted fast (I have been frustrated beyond belief trying to make decent bread with a KA).
2) Even big KAs struggle when you have more than a couple of loaves worth in the bowl. I believe the absolute maximum you can mix in a KA is 2 kgs of dough, and even then the machine dances all over your countertop and wants to jump to the floor.
3) Those struggles translate for sure into mechanical stress / repairs. Even with full-metal gears as they have now, I sincerely believe the machine is operating beyond its designed cruise performance with 1.5+ kgs of bread dough in the bowl. You only have to put your hand on the cover above the gear compartment after 15+ minutes of operation to realize that.
4) I tend to pre-mix my doughs in the KA (water / flour / levain) out of sheer laziness / not getting my hands dirty with the initial mix. The KA is fit for purpose. After that, I continue the rest of the process by hand. That’s the only way if you own a KA.
5) If you are planning to bake straight dough breads (commercial yeast pan loaves mostly) with a more closed / heavier crumb, and in smaller quantities (1 big loaf or 2 smaller loaves), the KA might be fit for purpose, but you already have a bread machine for that.
6) Many users in the forum swear by an exotic (and expensive) Swedish dough mixer sold under the Ankarsrum Brand, and they sing big praises to how this machine outperforms a KA in everything bread doughs. It has a steep price point though, at 600+ USD.
My bottom line: Buy the KA if you’re planning to bake straight-dough breads in small volumes mostly (and pastry, for sure). If you want to venture into higher quality breads and / or bigger volumes (sourdough / long proofing / open crumbs) the KA will fall very short of your expectations, and it’s a bulky and pricey investment. Stay with your bread machine, they’re thoroughly enjoyable and way cheaper.
If you still want to mix those difficult doughs with a machine, then it seems that the best domestic alternative, judging by the opinions in this Forum is the Ankarsrum. I don’t have one though so I can’t comment any further.
In any case, safe bakes and enjoy your bread machine ;-)
My definition of mixer: another damn piece of equipment to get out, set up, use, take apart, clean, put away.
idave's 1st rule: don't get it unless you have room on your counter to leave it there permanently.
idave's 2nd rule: I use long enough rise times, (1st rise is called bulk-ferment, 2nd rise is called final-proof) that the bread "kneads itself". The most "work" I do is rough-mix, and then some stretch-and-folds. Although some use a machine to mix and knead, and to great effect.... it is not necessary for all formulas. You can always find excellent formulas for mostly-hands-off artisan bread.
idave's 3rd rule: learn to do it manually before expecting a machine to do it, or you won't know what to expect and correct.
idave's 4th rule: my bread-heros don't use no steenkin' mixer (nor bahdges): Chad Robertson, Ken Forkish, Peter Reinhart, Steve Gamelin, and most of the youtube bread channels. (ok, danni3ll3 is one of my heroes and she uses a mixer, but she makes 12 loaves at a time.)
Here's bread-hero Jeff Hamelman mixing 2420 grams of dough in a trough, 10 minutes in: www.youtube.com/watch?t=600s&v=inS1J5QeUKQ
Watch this laid-back old dude (Steve Gamelin) make artisan bread, and then tell me you need a mixer: www.youtube.com/user/artisanbreadwithstev/videos
All that said, I don't want to be the guy who says what toys other guys can have for their hobbies. It's your hobby, your money, and your time, natchurally. But just try a little this-n-that before ya go big.
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So... Welcome to the bread world! It's fun. And part of the fun is to see how little actual work we can do, and how little we can invest in capital equipment. ;-) (But then at the same time, some of us spend _hours and hours_ tweaking and testing adjustments_, but we call that "fun" not "work". :-)
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(*I also hate meeces to pieces, unless they are cartoon mice.)
@DrainAps, I can hardly begin to thank you for your wonderfully informative information. If it were my kingdom, you would by now be a knight!
@idave, thanks for the refreshing thoughts. i will revolutionize my bread thinking.
This is the best bread forum ever and you are one of the reasons. Thanks so much.
Thanks for your kind comment. Knighthood accepted ?
and it has metal gears.
that being said, it really struggles with most of the breads i make, even at speed 2, which is what they say you should use. my bosch compact doesn't struggle with those same doughs, barely slowing on my stiffest, driest dough which i would never put in my kitchenaid. and i only make 1 loaf at a time, mostly 500 grams of flour or less.
Only one thing; If they should break after 90 days, you're on your own.
Bread dough on a KA should never exceed speed 2--not if you like your mixer to keep working. Ideally, one shouldn't exceed speed 1.
A used Magic Mill mixer (aka Ankarsrum Assistent N24) can be had for $US300 give or take on Ebay if one is patient. this is the 450 watt model and is plenty powerful to handle pretty much anything you throw at it. The newer models are 600 and 800 watt in the US and while they are more powerful, I've never read of anyone complaining that their 450 watt model wasn't keeping up. They are belt driven, which means there are no gears to strip, they will bog down a little with large quantities of low hydration dough at first, then catch up. I'm with idaveindy, use a mixer to blend everything and then finish by hand.
Bread dough on a KA should never exceed speed 2--not if you like your mixer to keep working. Ideally, one shouldn't exceed speed 1.
A used Magic Mill mixer (aka Ankarsrum Assistent N24) can be had for $US300 give or take on Ebay if one is patient. this is the 450 watt model and is plenty powerful to handle pretty much anything you throw at it. The newer models are 600 and 800 watt in the US and while they are more powerful, I've never read of anyone complaining that their 450 watt model wasn't keeping up. They are belt driven, which means there are no gears to strip, they will bog down a little with large quantities of low hydration dough at first, then catch up. I'm with idaveindy, use a mixer to blend everything and then finish by hand.