I've had great success with some of Hamelman's naturally leavened recipes from 'Bread'. However, I am always puzzled by the fact that he doesn't specify water temperature, particularly for the overnight levain build, which takes '12 to 16 hours' to ripen. Whether it takes 12 or 16 probably depends on several things , but from my understanding the actual water temperature will be a major factor. My starter rises and falls quite predictably at 75°F ambien/86°F water in 8-9 hours after being refreshed. I am not quite experienced enough to predict the approx. time required for different levain builds. It feels more like guesswork and a bit of a hit and miss at the moment.
I also ask because Peter Reinhart and Maurizio (theperfectloaf) states the water temperatures in their formulas, which i find very helpful. I wonder why Hamelman chose not to do this?
I would love to hear what you guys typically choose to do with Hamelman's formulas and the effects this has on the time the levain takes to ripen. If I am aiming for, say, 12 hours, should I stick to around 86 F, warmer, room temperature? and so on.
I remember reading Hammelman from cover to cover when I got it, and have read many parts of it again, but IIRC, his recipes are based on dough temp at the end of mixing. I think he has a formula for water, flour, and room temp, and also includes a friction factor for the type of mixer so you manipulate the temp of the water to get the desired final temp.
This is the KA Flour has to say about it https://www.kingarthurflour.com/blog/2018/05/29/desired-dough-temperature
I guess it makes sense that he doesn't suggest the water temp in the 'final dough' section, since other factors may vary a lot. I assume that after 12+ hours on the counter the levain temp will be closer to the ambien temperature anyway? I've used his formula to reach the desired dough temperature after mixing. I just wish he would elaborate more on the desired temp for the levain build. I think this is where I'm having an issue. Unless I've missed something in his book. It would be great to hear what you guys normally choose to do when using his sourdough recipes ?
The old saying "watch the dough, not the clock" can be applied to levains too. I am (apparently) one of the few on this site who regularly measures the dough temperature at the end of mixing and who pays attention to the water temperature as a component of the factors that will affect the final dough temperature.
What I do with one of Hamelman's builds is simply keep an eye on the levain. (I do the same for a Forkish recipe too.) If the levain has not risen and looks quiet, I let it go longer. If the levain is bubbly and frothy, then I know it is ready. (Or in the case of a Forkish build, if the preferment has not risen sufficiently, which is typically a bit more than doubling, I let it sit longer until it has risen.)
For water temperature, I am less concerned with a specific temperature in the preferment (levain or whatever) than just making sure that the water is somewhere in the 80s for the summer or 90s for the winter. As you remarked, the mixture will fairly soon reach the ambient temperature anyway (hence warmer water in the winter).
Happy baking.
Ted
Keeping an eye on it makes sense, this is what I normally do. I guess I was worried about the levain peaking during the night while I'm asleep. But the one I made for Hamelman's five-grain levain recipe the other day (after posting this) took 13 hrs to peak and the water was in the low 90s. So it wasn't really an issue, at least not this time around. Like so many things when it comes to bread I guess it comes with experience.
In one of Peter Reinhart's books, he gives the following formula for water temp. I've been using it since my kitchen is often very cold in the winter. Not sure about levain but maybe it can help.
Say 80F if the target dough temp, 80x3 = 240F
(3 is number of factors, flour/room/friction).
Take (Flour temp + room temp + friction temp), then substract from 240.
(Friction temp = approx 20F if short mixer time+stretch&fold, 30F for mixer only, 8-10F by hand).
Example:
72ºF+67ºF+20ºF = 159
240-159= 81ºF is the water temp
That's because with 12 hour fermentation the only temperature that matters is ambient.
Wow, I never thought about that. Is it because the amount of mature starter he uses is less than other formulas I've used where the build typically takes 4-6 hours? Or perhaps due to flour combinations (the five-grain levain recipe is 100% bread flour)?
It seems the levain temp drops a lot faster than I thought as it sits on the counter, even if warm water is being used.