Hello all,
I just started working with preferments. i love the added flavor it gives my bread. But I am having issues with biga. I dont think im mixing the biga to the dough well but maybe its something else. Hopefully someone will point to my errors.
below is my formula
Step 1: Prepare Biga
- Initial temps: flour: 74ºF, air: 74ºF, water 81ºF
- hydrated IDY with a few tablespoons of water let it rest for a few minutes
- Incorporated all ingredients. Final temp of biga was 78ºF
- Placed biga in covered plastic tub let it rest for 13 hours
- Biga almost tripled in volume, had a slight alcohol scent and with a slight dome
Step 2: Mix dough
- Initial temps: flour: 74ºF, air: 74ºF, biga: 78ºF, water: 105ºF
- mixed flour, water yeast and salt
- Incorporated the biga to mixture and started kneading using rubaud method.
- Intially the dough started coming together developed slight window pane but after further kneading it became super wet.
- I just let it rise using several stretch and folds to help build gluten
- I let it rise for 4 hours
- Shaped and baked
The final dough was super wet, and the oven spring was minimal. But the bread was really tasty. Im not 100% sure what i am doing wrong exactly. I think somehow Im not mixing the dough correctly. I hope some one can shed light.
Thank you all,
Theo
The crumb looks real good.
What brand and type of flour did you use?
If it feels too wet during the mix/knead/stretch-and-fold phases, you're allowed to adjust by adding a bit more flour.
Maybe your flour absorbed some moisture just sitting around. Flour gaining or losing moisture is a common thing.
thank you... it was delicious. I just feel i had a hard time mixing the biga into the final dough. The biga has a 68% hydration. It was a little too stiff
As per danyo's recommendation i will add the water into my biga, let it hydrate and then mix the final dough.
In this case my final dough lacked elasticity. But i chalked it up to experience. Cant wait for the next loaf
As far as flour... i am using King Arthur AP flour
"Incorporated the biga to mixture and started kneading using rubaud method.
Intially the dough started coming together developed slight window pane but after further kneading it became super wet."
I have the book, and looked up this formula. Forkish doesn't call for kneading in steps 2 and 3 on page 107, just pincer method alternating with folds until fully integrated. So, my guess is that the dough got over-worked. Remember, just sitting and fermenting long enough, such as overnight, "works" the dough and develops gluten.
Here's further reasoning... Since the biga is 80%, and ferments ovenight, that is where the majority of the gluten already developed. So, by attempting to develop/"work up" gluten on the 20%, via kneading, you sort of "wore down" what was already built up in the 80%. And thereby lost the elasticity in that 80%.
That point where it "went slack/wet", could have been the point it was over-worked/over-mixed.
That "slight" window pane was likely good enough, because it still had a 3.5 hour bulk ferment, and 1 hour proof yet to go.
In these long ferment formulas, remember: time = kneading.
In other words, your biga was the "main dough" and the rest 100g/103g flour/water was an "add in".
Does any of that make sense?
It does make sense. It may have gotten overworked. i kneaded it for 5 minutes The final dough had decent elasticity in the beginning but then went south. Interesting indeed. But I will be mindful next time i make it this week. I will post results! Cant wait to try it again. Thank you for your input!
“La vérité sort du four.” -Cavel "The truth come out of the oven" so far it looks 1000x better than my last attempt. I didn't over-knead it this time. Thank you Dave!!
what do you think.... much better result.... thank you!!
Great loaf!
And you're welcome. On your first go-round, your engineer-like description of what first seemed out of place and the exact actions that preceded it, made it easy to diagnose. I predict your good communication style will allow you to advance far in your profession. (I have a tech/IT background.)
What did the fam think of the taste and crust/crumb?
Family loved it. Thank you for asking and the kind words!
I am schooled in engineering. I guess it permeates my every fiber. Everything is a system. :)). The crumb came out great. A major critique with taste was the crust on the bottom was a bit harder than I would like. Its not consistent. Sometimes its excellent other times too hard. Im not sure what variables determine crust strength :)).
The bake was in a cast iron pot resting on a baking stone @ 475ºF for 30 mins. I opened the lid and lowered the temp to 425ºF for 30 mins. I dont have a laser therm. yet to determine exact temp. Maybe i can axe the baking stone. It serves no purpose. What do you think?
I hope to be a master baker one day. This forum is full of highly skilled bakers.
The rule of thumb is if the crust is over done, but the center is just right, then the oven was too hot.
(You can get a $5 oven thermometer to double-check the oven's thermostat.)
And yes, the preheated baking stone is going to transfer extra heat to the bottom, via conduction, making a thicker/crispier bottom crust.
The main thing to cut down the browning/blackening of the bottom crust, put a cookie sheet/pan, or a wide/long-enough piece of aluminum foil, on the rack below the rack where the dutch oven sits, to "shade" the D.O. from the radiant heat of the lower heating element. (Be sure to "shade" the oven thermometer too if you use one.) (The stone also likely absorbed radiant heat from a wider area, and conducted it to a smaller area, the D.O., so I think the stone added more heat to the D.O, than it prevented by shading effect.) So, by not touching the D.O., the sheet/pan/foil won't conduct excess heat to the D.O. (I'm not sure how to reason/calculate using the stone as "non-touching" shade, sitting on a lower rack, whether it is a plus or minus.)
The top of your loaf looked great, so that leads me to think it was just a matter of excess radiant heat from below. But if the next loaf still has an over-dark bottom after removing the baking stone, and using the shade thing, then try a 450/425 temp combo.
Another thing is to move the D.O. rack up one position, if possible. Radiant heat varies by inverse square of distance.
I think so as well. Im 86'ing the baking stone. See what happens. Thank you for your great insights ;).