Good day and thanks for allowing me to join this group. I have an older Bread Man breadmaker, and have made a couple of white bread (one was egg bread) loaves, and one Banana Nut bread loaf. I wanted to ask those of your who do a lot of bread maker work how I can reduce the density of the white bread/egg bread. I followed recipes in the lists that came with the machine, but these loaves come out very dense.
I would appreciate any input. Maybe I'm not using enough Yeast.
The Banana Nut bread is great, though. GOing to try another recipe next week while I eat up the rest of this one, though.
Thanks, Panama Jim (Oklahoma)
A few things I've learned with bread machines:
1. When they say "Instant", "Rapid Rise" or "Bread Machine" yeast, they mean it. Do not use "Active Dry" unless you alter the procedure to hydrate it first -- see below**. Those first three are essentially the same, "Active Dry" is different.
2. all flour is not created equal, not even the same types, not even the same brand after it has been opened and sat around. Kroger brand is different than Gold Medal, which is different than King Arthur, even when you compare AP to AP or Bread flour to Bread flour. Depending on ambient humidity, a stored bag of flour, even in a sealed container, is going to gain or lose moisture over time. And flour ages.
3. I've learned that I have to make adjustments to hydration at a certain point in the mixing cycle of my bread machine. Too little or too much moisture in the dough ball affects how it gets worked/kneaded by the paddle, which affects gluten development. Moisture affects the yeast activity and the rise.
4. Tap water is not the same. Bottled water is not the same. I learned I have to use bottled _spring_ water, not bottled _purified_ water, because the purification process does not take out chlorine of the "city water" source that the latter uses. My tap water has a tad too much chlorine, and way too much hardness because of Indiana's limestone. Our city water is not even all from the same source -- different water plants -- some is from wells, some from an open reservoir, so it depends on where one lives in town.
My yeast and bread likes the bottled spring water over tap, and over bottled "purified."
5. The big secret of going from mediocre to good or great bread is learning how to make adjustments. It seems to me like every professional, and honest, baker who writes a cookbook specifically spells this out somewhere in their book. Because your tap-water is very different, your flour is different, your ambient tempersture and humidity is different. And even if you use the exact same brand and type of flour, it has sat on the grocery store shelf a different length of time, and once it has been in your home, opened up, and sat around, it is even different still. A jar of yeast, after opened, slowly loses potency, even when kept in the fridge.
6. The key to adjustments is learning how to "read" your dough (its different for each recipe), and documenting or remembering what you tried, and what the effect was, and what worked or what you liked,
This is why you get a range of glowing versus negative reviews for cookbooks on amazon: Someone THINKS they did "exactly" what the author says, but they did not take the time to experiment and learn to make adjustments based on those things that you can't exactly-exactly duplicate.
In their second edition of Healthy Bread in Five Minutes a Day, the authors ADDED IN their own suggested adjustments for various common brands of flour. And then some reviewers complained that it became too complicated.
** Active Dry yeast: I've learned I can use Active Dry yeast in the machine if I put it in the water in the machine's pan first, with some table sugar or a little corn sugar (dextrose) then waiting 5 to 10 minutes before adding other ingredients and pressing the START button. "Instant yeast" usually goes on TOP of the dry ingredients, and doesn't get "wetted" until the dough is mixed. Active Dry yeast needs a little head start to hydrate.
Thanks so much for your great descriptions. I've tried both Bread Flour and Gold Medal All Purpose so far, following the Bread Maker directions, and both were very dense. I will look for a better quality of yeast next, and will use bottled water (we do have hard and chlorinated water here in Panama).
But as far as yeast is concerned, can you recommend any type in particular. I like simple.
Thanks, Jim
When I use commercial yeast in the bread machine, I use Fleischmann Bread Machine Instant Yeast in the 4 oz glass jar, US $4-something from Walmart. I keep it in fridge, before and after opening.
If I recall correctly, the jar label says 2.25 tsp equals one packet.
I think using bottled spring water will help a lot.
If your room temp is chilly, warming the water to 70-85 F also gives the yeast a head start before the machine's heater turns on for the rise portion of the cycle.
If your flour is refrigerated, let it warm up to room temp, or increase water temp to 85-90 F.
From your original post, you're in Panama, Oklahoma?
Yes, Panama OK.
My biggest issue is the density of the bread. I'll try a different yeast (the one you suggested) and use the bread flour again. And Bottled Spring water, but why not purified water? That takes the chlorine out.
Thanks again. I'll report my results!
Panama Jim
I would have thought that "purified" water has all the chlorine removed, but it apparently depends on what kinds of filters are used.
I buy cheap bottled water at Big Lots, "purified" to drink, "spring" for bread and drinking. Maybe the brands Big Lots sells are the problem.
Or, maybe the trace minerals in the bottled spring water are boosting the yeast.
Try both and see.
Here is an interesting page on different kinds/sources of water and how it affects sourdough and other fermenting:
https://www.culturesforhealth.com/learn/general/water-source-making-cultured-fermented-food/
Ya got yer chlorine, chloramines, flouride, and minerals. It's kind of complicated. Bottled water doesn't specify the chemical composition. So, it's a crap shoot anyways. or as they say: your mileage may vary.
somewhere near to the middle and look at the density. Take a good long look at the crumb and surrounding crust.
Where is density concentrated? Does the crumb look like it's sagging or does it look like it was baked in the process of rising? Are the bubbles round? Or flat? Or tear drop shaped? Or amoeba shaped or no shape at all? When you rotate the slice, can you tell which side is up? If you can tell which side is up, how do you know? What tells you?
.......got a crumb photo?