I don't think there is anything besides "Alpha" mixer which costs around $2k and, I believe, available under several brand names. IMO, as fas as bang for the buck is concerned, you can do much better.
This mixer, while not specifically a spiral mixer, is very similar in action and has many of the advantages of the spiral, e.g. it is gentle on the dough and has a minimal temperature raising effect.
A secondary benefit is that it will do anything a more common design, such as a KA, will do. And will do more of it (household size). With its 7.5 qt (7liter) bowl, it will whip a single egg white or knead 6 lbs of bagel dough. By comparison, in ATK's mixer tests, the KA, for example, failed on half that much.
I've owned mine now since December, 2010 and have had zero issues in any mixing or kneading job (350+ 3-4lb batches of low-to-medium hydration doughs).
I heartily endorse this mixer for both the usual mixer chores and especially for bread making. It ain't cheap, but it's worth every cent.
The Italians and the Chinese seem to be the only manufacturers of affordable domestic spiral mixers, but they seem to be pretty scarce in the USA.
I live in the UK and directly imported from Italy a Famag Grilletta IM5 - and I'm very pleased with it, but unfortunately they don't ship to the States.
Check Amazon - they have a brand "Hakka" - probably Chinese, but the reviews look mixed. Or browse Aliexpress if you're feeling brave!
Italian-made Famag spiral mixers are world renowned for strength, quality, and outstanding baking results. Now they’re available in the U.S. for the first time, with industrial-duty motors designed specifically for U.S. voltage. As Famag's exclusive importer, Pleasant Hill Grain is proud to offer these high performance mixers! See them here: https://pleasanthillgrain.com/famag-im8-spiral-dough-mixer-variable-speed
I’ve had my Ankarsrum for about one year now and made many batches of various whole grain breads with it. (I most often make Peter Reinhart’s whole wheat sandwich bread with the biga and soaker.) However, I am not happy with my Ankarsrum. (Although I think it mixes better then my old Bosch.) When I make Reinhart’s recipe with a x 4 batch (3800 grams) the dough will work its way up and catch on the arm. It’s a mess. Another thing I don’t like is how long I have to mix the dough to really develop the gluten (2 mixes of 12 minutes each with a 15 minute rest in between) And when I mix it I have to hold the arm so the dough is pressed against the bowl with the roller — I can’t just leave it to mix by itself.
SO. I am thinking about selling my Ankarsrum and getting a Famag IM-8S through Pleasant Hill Grains. I am concerned about making this big of a jump — opinions?
Gwen is not following mfgs instructions on the roller adjustment.
Gwen, there is a chart in the manual which gives suggested starting points for the roller and reasonable speeds. For large batches, the roller should be on the order of 2in (5cm) from the bowl's rim and kneading be done at low speed, the first line on the speed dial.
Sandwich breads should have very strong gluten development.. About 12 minutes sounds right, though whole wheat may take a bit longer. The Ank develops dough in about 80% of the time it takes a KA.
I have never had the dough climb up my roller. Your recipe, I'm guessing, uses about 2.3 - 2.4kg of flour which is ~17cups. That's well within the notional maximum of 23 cups, or ~3.2kg of flour.
The chart is on page 27 of my manual, for an eight year old machine.
I owned an Ank for about 9 months, after owning a Bosch Universal Plus. I bought it after reading lots of positive reviews, but for me it was a very poor dough mixer and I sold it on.
The roller does not develop gluten well, you have to keep fiddling with the arm and the clamp screw works loose. The dough hook was OK, but no better than the action in the BUP, which is a lot cheaper.
I should have realised it was suspect when I watched those Youtube videos that said that the Ank would tell you how much water to add - hang on a minute, I want to set the hydration level for the dough, NOT the machine!
After the Ank I splashed out on the Famag IM5 - a great little spiral mixer. I've owned it for 18 months and have no desire to change it. But it is a one trick pony - if you want to make cakes, whisk eggs, etc you will need an additional mixer. I already had a Kenwood Major (I'm in the UK), so that wasn't an issue for me.
Also be aware that the IM-8S is going to be BIG - and heavy. You will not be moving it once in place! It sounds like the amount of dough you are mixing is going to want this size of machine; I guess max cap will be about 5kg of flour.
Having said all this lots of bakers love their Anks and would not be without them. Perhaps see what suggestions they come up with for you and give them a try - it might become a useable machine.
[quote=Lance]I should have realised it was suspect when I watched those Youtube videos that said that the Ank would tell you how much water to add - hang on a minute, I want to set the hydration level for the dough, NOT the machine![/quote]I have watched many of these vids, too. Fortunately, I watched [i]after[/i] I had read and applied the instructions. Many folks who should know better appear to be sharing their ignorance instead of their knowledge.
An honest question — if you have the roller towards the middle of the bowl (Ankarsrum). Instead of an inch from the edge of the bowl — how does the gluten develop?
Two inches is likely the most you will adjust the roller position from the rim. It only needs to press a little bit into the dough. The scraper gives the dough a slight turn before it is again lightly squeezed. What you don't always see is how much the dough twists itself from the bottom up as the roller and scraper hold the dough from spinning with the bowl. Another action that depends on hydration, volume, and degree of development is the stretching of the dough between the roller and the scraper.
I think the reason the folks talk about a learning curve with the Ankarsrum is due to so much of the action being hidden from sight, or happening at various times through the mixing/kneading process.
I don't think there is anything besides "Alpha" mixer which costs around $2k and, I believe, available under several brand names. IMO, as fas as bang for the buck is concerned, you can do much better.
This mixer, while not specifically a spiral mixer, is very similar in action and has many of the advantages of the spiral, e.g. it is gentle on the dough and has a minimal temperature raising effect.
A secondary benefit is that it will do anything a more common design, such as a KA, will do. And will do more of it (household size). With its 7.5 qt (7liter) bowl, it will whip a single egg white or knead 6 lbs of bagel dough. By comparison, in ATK's mixer tests, the KA, for example, failed on half that much.
I've owned mine now since December, 2010 and have had zero issues in any mixing or kneading job (350+ 3-4lb batches of low-to-medium hydration doughs).
I heartily endorse this mixer for both the usual mixer chores and especially for bread making. It ain't cheap, but it's worth every cent.
gary
The Italians and the Chinese seem to be the only manufacturers of affordable domestic spiral mixers, but they seem to be pretty scarce in the USA.
I live in the UK and directly imported from Italy a Famag Grilletta IM5 - and I'm very pleased with it, but unfortunately they don't ship to the States.
Check Amazon - they have a brand "Hakka" - probably Chinese, but the reviews look mixed. Or browse Aliexpress if you're feeling brave!
Lance
Lance
Italian-made Famag spiral mixers are world renowned for strength, quality, and outstanding baking results. Now they’re available in the U.S. for the first time, with industrial-duty motors designed specifically for U.S. voltage. As Famag's exclusive importer, Pleasant Hill Grain is proud to offer these high performance mixers! See them here: https://pleasanthillgrain.com/famag-im8-spiral-dough-mixer-variable-speed
I’ve had my Ankarsrum for about one year now and made many batches of various whole grain breads with it. (I most often make Peter Reinhart’s whole wheat sandwich bread with the biga and soaker.) However, I am not happy with my Ankarsrum. (Although I think it mixes better then my old Bosch.) When I make Reinhart’s recipe with a x 4 batch (3800 grams) the dough will work its way up and catch on the arm. It’s a mess. Another thing I don’t like is how long I have to mix the dough to really develop the gluten (2 mixes of 12 minutes each with a 15 minute rest in between) And when I mix it I have to hold the arm so the dough is pressed against the bowl with the roller — I can’t just leave it to mix by itself.
SO. I am thinking about selling my Ankarsrum and getting a Famag IM-8S through Pleasant Hill Grains. I am concerned about making this big of a jump — opinions?
My understanding was that on loads this large the roller should be right in the middle of the bowl.
Gwen is not following mfgs instructions on the roller adjustment.
Gwen, there is a chart in the manual which gives suggested starting points for the roller and reasonable speeds. For large batches, the roller should be on the order of 2in (5cm) from the bowl's rim and kneading be done at low speed, the first line on the speed dial.
Sandwich breads should have very strong gluten development.. About 12 minutes sounds right, though whole wheat may take a bit longer. The Ank develops dough in about 80% of the time it takes a KA.
I have never had the dough climb up my roller. Your recipe, I'm guessing, uses about 2.3 - 2.4kg of flour which is ~17cups. That's well within the notional maximum of 23 cups, or ~3.2kg of flour.
The chart is on page 27 of my manual, for an eight year old machine.
I owned an Ank for about 9 months, after owning a Bosch Universal Plus. I bought it after reading lots of positive reviews, but for me it was a very poor dough mixer and I sold it on.
The roller does not develop gluten well, you have to keep fiddling with the arm and the clamp screw works loose. The dough hook was OK, but no better than the action in the BUP, which is a lot cheaper.
I should have realised it was suspect when I watched those Youtube videos that said that the Ank would tell you how much water to add - hang on a minute, I want to set the hydration level for the dough, NOT the machine!
After the Ank I splashed out on the Famag IM5 - a great little spiral mixer. I've owned it for 18 months and have no desire to change it. But it is a one trick pony - if you want to make cakes, whisk eggs, etc you will need an additional mixer. I already had a Kenwood Major (I'm in the UK), so that wasn't an issue for me.
Also be aware that the IM-8S is going to be BIG - and heavy. You will not be moving it once in place! It sounds like the amount of dough you are mixing is going to want this size of machine; I guess max cap will be about 5kg of flour.
Having said all this lots of bakers love their Anks and would not be without them. Perhaps see what suggestions they come up with for you and give them a try - it might become a useable machine.
Lance
[quote=Lance]I should have realised it was suspect when I watched those Youtube videos that said that the Ank would tell you how much water to add - hang on a minute, I want to set the hydration level for the dough, NOT the machine![/quote]I have watched many of these vids, too. Fortunately, I watched [i]after[/i] I had read and applied the instructions. Many folks who should know better appear to be sharing their ignorance instead of their knowledge.
gary
An honest question — if you have the roller towards the middle of the bowl (Ankarsrum). Instead of an inch from the edge of the bowl — how does the gluten develop?
Two inches is likely the most you will adjust the roller position from the rim. It only needs to press a little bit into the dough. The scraper gives the dough a slight turn before it is again lightly squeezed. What you don't always see is how much the dough twists itself from the bottom up as the roller and scraper hold the dough from spinning with the bowl. Another action that depends on hydration, volume, and degree of development is the stretching of the dough between the roller and the scraper.
I think the reason the folks talk about a learning curve with the Ankarsrum is due to so much of the action being hidden from sight, or happening at various times through the mixing/kneading process.
g
i very much appreciate your comment!
The Famag Grilletta IM5-S mixer is now available for pre-order at Pleasant Hill Grain!