Hello all,
Hope someone can help me out. I'm on my fourth batch of making baguette using the New Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes. I'm not looking to change recipes at this time apart from making a small addition or subtraction.
One of my baguettes back on attempt one kept nice cuts I made across the baguette but since then, they disappear into the baguette and I'm not sure how.
I'm still playing with resting on peel vs baguette Pan and temps etc but for the life of me I cannot replicate the nice slashes across the baguette. I've gone as deep as I dare with my knife. Latest attempt, I tried using more floor when rolling it so that it wasn't as wet but as you can see from picture... They disappeared again.
Thoughts? Should I "spread" the cuts manually after making them? Any other thoughts?
Thanks all!
Hi TJ, I’m struggling with that the exact issue. We have a number of resident bakers that are very proficient with scoring a baguettes. You can use the search box on the forum to find lots of info.
Today we started a new Community Bake featuring Maurizio’s Sourdough Baguettes. You can see the post here. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/57182/community-bake-maurizios-sd-baguettes-everyone-welcome
I’ll be watching your post for replies. I hope we can learn this together.
Shaping and scoring baguettes are very demanding. Learning these skills are a great accomplishment.
This is a must see video. https://youtu.be/8kVab9PNhYM
Dan
When in the process are you making the cuts? How are they baked and at what temperature? In other words, my two guesses are: they could be getting scored quite a while before they're put in the oven, or they could be getting baked at a fairly low temperature. I'm sure there are many other things that could be happening, those are just the two I've experienced. I definitely advise against manually spreading the cuts!
edit: Sorry, I asked you stupid questions, especially the first one.
tough to say much without more info on what you are doing (but you don't want to be cutting across, but down the length in the center 1/3, as shown in the second link below).
in the meantime...Mac is the man:
https://www.sfbi.com/shaping-baguettes.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ebKpEG0tBM
In the last of the 2 videos, the bread seems to score so easily. I wish I could try scoring one of those doughs. The dough appeared to offer no resistence. Not a single pull of the skin. I am under the impression that the condition of the dough and tightness of the skin has a lot to do with expert scoring.
I bookmarked both videos. His shaping technique looks like one of the best I’ve seen.
Thanks for the info.
Dan
hey dan, notice on the second loaf he touches the surface, it's not a very sticky dough. Depending on hydration just a few percent drop can have a profound effect on the slash. I know i would have to go to about 65% to be able to slash this easily but prefer to push around 70% (referencing the second vid here)
Thanks Geremy. Sometimes the obvious is not obvious. After pointing it out, it is apparent that Mack’s dough is moderately dry. Today, I’m scoring baguettes with 12% whole grain. I retarded the shaped doughs this time. Also, following Mac’s instructions, the dough was shaped with a much tighter skin. The fermenting was deliberately monitored so as to NOT over proof. Try as I may, it is difficult to get past the anxiety at scoring time. When near 24 hours is invested in a dough and things have not historically proceeded with scoring as hoped, it’s difficult to exude confidence :-) ...but, I shall persevere. One cannot fail, if he or she never quits.
Dan
Non-bread people would surely deem us insane, and righteously have us all committed to a mental institution.
Lol - i get the same little pangs too - regarding the community bake - would love to participate but my oven caught on fire the other day - I think it's dead despite my reassuring Alan in another post that it has life left in it. All I know is my wife called the other day and said why is there fire coming out of the oven ?
If it has to be replaced, I hope it is with an oven of your dreams. I know how important that precious oven kick is to you. You didn’t set it on fire, did you? You sly dog... <LOL>
I was looking forward to your participation. A Community Bake featuring baguettes will be incomplete without your input. I cherish your prespective on things. When everyone is looking to the right, you pop up with radically diiferent thoughts from the left.
Tell your wife that you are needed and that you need an oven up and running pronto...
Danny
I'm going to go out on a relatively sturdy limb here and state that most working professional "artisan" bakeries don't produce baguettes with hydrations much north of the mid 60 range. Maybe a few percent higher for baggies with whole grains added. It is only we tinkerers and home artisans who like to play around with oddball hydrations for both the enjoyment as well as the learning experiences and challenges.
When they are producing perhaps hundreds of baguettes daily, they can't be bogged down working at the slow speeds we see in the demo videos nor having to wrangle with a difficult high hydration dough.
I am coming down to earth and maybe entering the reality zone. We learn much from our failures, but I think I’ve acquired enough failures at this time to be “well taught” in arena of scoring dough :-)
I’m going to rework my spreadsheet for Maurizio’s SD Baguette to 65% hydration (maybe a wee bit more for 12% whole grain, which is originally set @ 73%. It’s time to take all of those failed learning lessons and use them to succeed :-)
So Alan, how would you suggest developing the gluten for scoring with 65% hydration? Can’t Slap & Fold, or Rubaud. What say you?
Thanks for the help.
Danny
Oh! For anyone interested, there is a Community Bake taking place, featuring Maurizio’s Sourdough Baguettes. The formula and instructions are well written. And the results have been spectacular. Everyone is welcomed. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/57182/community-bake-maurizios-sd-baguettes-everyone-welcome
I've never done Trevor's-Rubaud's (it is, after all, named for M. Rubaud) method, but a hundred million adherents to the method can't all be wrong ;-) .
If you really want to get adept at working with a mid 60 range formula, take a short break from Maurizio's baggie formula for a few days. Perhaps take one that was designed for the mid 60's range. Since first (and, to my own discredit, reluctantly) trying the Hamelman Vermont SD, which clocks in at 65% as originally written, it is a near-perfect baguette dough, a fantastic dough to work and to work with. A bit dry/rubbery on the final mixing, but softens out over the two hour bulk rise, and becomes eminently workable. Really easy to shape and takes scoring quite well, especially out of retard.
Here's my original foray into it, per my blog entry, if you care to peek.
alan
sorry I always reference movies so if you identified the title that's 10 extra points. what I am referring to is the way one adjustment such as hydration might make scoring easier but then crumb development becomes a tad trickier. As you mention now at 65% gluten development takes a little hit. so it really IMHO comes down to how much do you want to sacrifice crumb for the ability to score without little teeth appearing along the cuts - just gotta find that balance. It also depends in flour. The stuff I have right now goes ciabatta at low %s so 65% is actually kinda high for this flour. With that said I don't think there is a magic number coz all so dependent on, well, everything. However, one consideration and I think Alan also dropped this hint, do a longer autolyse for lower hydration and shorter mix / knead cycle. Example you can push a 20 minute autolyse to an hour then just be careful not to overwork the dough after that - more than anything find the balance and Zen zone ;)
and after reading your suggestions my first attempt at baguette will be 65% hydration and as Dan is the spreadsheet wizard he provided me kindly with the re-calculated formula of Maurizio's formula. I also will have a look at your link....
I am sooooo glad to be able to bake with folks here rather than potter around without any clues in my kitchen being followed by Barney who is not helping either.apart from wanting to steal sandwiches......... Kat
and they should help as I am about to jump into the deep end! Ha, Ha.....Kat
Thanks a bunch for those links. Definitely scoring improperly. Going way too perpendicular. Everything else seems ok. Just need to get myself a razor blade though. Seems to make much better snoring. Making more Saturday morning, I'll post an update.
Thanks again!
But first a word from our sponsors: don't score "across the baguette". Follow the video's procedure. And don't manually open the score lines, leave them the heck alone. "Depth" of the score is a relative term, but digging deep into baguette dough, at the wrong angle, with too dull a blade, etc. is not a solution either. Scoring baguettes is a hard-fought skill for many, so it may take a fair amount of time and practice.
Your shaping would look better had the scores opened nicely.
Okay, there's a starter kit to ponder and reply. The more detail that you can provide helps this community to take a better shot at providing corrections.
alan
And really should not be advising at all. I've yet to master the perfect scoring. But in my quest to perfect this skill I'll share some thoughts.
1: are you getting the angle of the blade right? They say 30 degrees is good for the scoring to open and to have a nice ear. But short of getting out a protractor just how does one estimate 30 degrees? What I'm trying to say is that in an effort to avoid a 45 degree scoring you might be over compensating and 30 degrees is not as flat as you might think. If too shallow an angle the scoring will close back up under the weight which brings me to point #2.
2: it may seem counterproductive but the higher the hydration the shallower the scoring. If too deep the weight of the over lapping dough just collapses under gravity and seals back up.
Now me giving advice in front of the two baguette masters is like a high school student giving a maths lesson in front of a rocket scientist. I don't bake often enough and only one bread at a time to practice scoring. But these are two points which I myself have gotten wrong and is my next step in correcting the issue.
the protein. French Baguettes are made with low protein flour of around 10% or an AP flour from the grocery store like Gold Medal or Pillsbury here in the states. 65% hydration is fine for them . When you start using KA AP flour it is about 11% protein and the KA websites has their standard baguettes at 67% hydration as a result. When you go to KA bread flour or high gluten or some kind of mix like many do then you can go to 71 or even 73% for white bread. 15 to 20% whole grains in the mix can start at 73% if the rest is bread flour. Pushing the hydration for the flour you are using will open the crumb if you don't go so crazy with it that the ears don't open. Everything in bread making is relative. It is pretty tough to wrong with AP flour and 67% - 69% hydration if using KA AP or store bough at 65 -67% hydration.
Happy baking