I'm used to pre-shaping as a boule and then reshaping into a batard. It works for a dough which one can handle well.
For a high hydration dough I have no issues shaping a boule but run into problems when doing the batard reshape. The recipe I'm following advises to just cup ones hands and tighten up the boule as the reshape as opposed to flipping the dough over and shaping again. Can I follow the same principle but instead of tightening up the boule by way of cupping my hands use flat hands to tighten it up into a batard rather than doing a whole reshape?
Hope I've explained myself well.
Thank you!
The thing to keep in mind is that shaping is an opportunity to build more structure into a loaf via additional folds/rolls. A loaf without sufficient structure won't hold a very good shape. Structure comes from the accumulation of fermentation gasses, as well as from folds. Good structure also allows a dough to hold tension for a longer period of time than poor structure. This can be especially important for high hydration loaves which are typically slack and give up their tension quickly. This is why "stitching" is so popular among bakers who specialize in high hydration loaves -- stitching provides a ton of structure which allows wet dough to hold a better shape.
So . . .
If you just "reshape" a batard by tightening up the preshape -- rather than flipping it on it's back and folding/rolling/stitching -- you are deprived of the opportunity to add additional strength and structure to your loaf. This may or may not be a problem, depending on the dough you're working with and the results you are expecting. If your dough is already quite proofy and strong, then it may in fact have enough structure "as is" and simply re-tightening it into a batard may be sufficient.
A clue you can look for is how well the dough holds the boule shape after preshaping. If your boule flattens out significantly or very quickly (especially if it pancakes), then there is a fair chance that when you "reshape" it into a boule via just tightening that it will simply go slack again after a while. But if the boule holds a nice full shape with only modest spreading, then just re-tightening the loaf again may very well work.
As always, the best course of action is to just try it and see, then adjust as necessary. Good luck!
Cheers!
Trevor
I followed your advice and decided on a proper reshape. Put the dough in the fridge for 30 minutes before shaping to help with the handling. After tipping the dough out into an unfloured bench I did a letter fold two ways and let the dough rest for 20 minutes. After which I did another letter fold two ways but rounded it up into a boule (the second pre-shape just to be sure) and let it rest for 20 minutes. The dough held it shape very well! For the shaping I floured the outside and flipped the dough over so no flour gets inside the dough and rolled it up into a batard. A very good shaping indeed. Nice and taut. Infact one of the best shaping I've done. It's now been two hours in the banneton and I think the same problem is occuring... The dough seems like jelly and I can see it won't hold its shape when tipped out. It's not over proofed or over fermented and the shaping was, I think, perfect however it always gets to this stage and the dough doesn't wish to hold its shape anymore.
Abe, what is the hydration? Are you doing an autolyse? How long is the BF and at what temp? Are you using a strong flour?
I may be aware of what you are experiencing. In my case I believe the dough has degraded, by long fermentation @ room temp and the affect of acid from the Levain. The gluten matrix is intact, but seems thin and fragile. When it is shaped, it relaxing too much, no matter how I try to build strength/structure.
Are you experiencing any of the above? Or am I on the wrong track?
You said, “put the dough in the refrigerator for 30 minutes before shaping”. I hadn’t heard of that before. How did it work for you? Sounds like a great idea.
Dan
Thanks so much for the reply and all the support with this recipe. I'm doing a repeat.
More to follow... but I panicked again. And now I'm embarrassed again!
It's in the oven baking freestanding (I took the plunge) and we have a big success. Oven spring saves the day.
I'll write more soon.