Panettone Paradiso

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mwilson on

"Extra paradise" panettone from Cresci

286   10000   Flour 280W
66    2300   Lievito Naturale
100    3500   Sugar
149    5200   Water
100    3500   Butter
.29      10   Fresh yeast
   
40    1400   Sugar
57    2000   Honey
2.86     100   Malt powder
.86      30   Fresh yeast
100    3500   Butter
63    2200   egg yolks
86    3000   Bari Walnuts
57    2000   Raisins
29    1000   Dark choc drops
2.86     100   Salt
------   -----   Orange zest
------   -----   Vanilla
1139.87   39840 
   

 

Amendments:
I made two changes, one was to omit the added compressed yeast and the other was substituting some of the walnuts with candied orange peel.

One of my finest panettoni. Incredibly soft and light which makes hard work when slicing. A fantastic bready texture that tears beautifully when pulled apart.

This is a very difficult formula to achieve success. The enriching ingredients in ratio to the flour are higher than any other panettone. This is due to there being no flour added in the second dough.

 

Hi Michael,

What a masterpiece. Wonderful crumb and the crust is so papery thin!  I wouldn't worry about the slicing being hard because, if this loaf ever made it anywhere near my house, I know my kids would  just 'rip' into it :- )  As txfarmer says - shred-ably soft so it can be pulled apart which is what you have said too.

Thanks for the post.  I always love seeing your breads and each one seems to out-do its predecessor.

Take Care,

Janet

P.S.  Is the malt powder a new addition?  I don't recall seeing it in your other formulas.  Do you use it for its sweeting properties or as food for the yeast?

Thanks Janet. I'm really pleased with the texture, the best I have achieved!

The formula includes the malt powder and I believe it is there to give the LAB extra food that is then converted into acid which then boosts dough strength. That's my guess!

Cheers,

Michael

 

Thanks for the explanation.  Makes sense if it is diastatic malt rather than non-diastatic malt.  Does it add any malty flavor that you can detect?  I use non-diastatic malt as a sweetener in breads at times for the hint of malt it imparts on a loaf - a subtle something…

Janet

Tender and lovely crumb.  What have you applied for the topping to adhere the sugar crystals?  I've bookmarked this lovely panettone.  Thanks for sharing.

Sylvia

Thanks Sylvia. The topping is my standard recipe: (enough for two panettoni)

40g caster sugar
20g ground almonds
2g maize flour
1g cocoa powder

Add enough egg white to make a thick paste that spreads but doesn't run. You really don't need much. My tip is to beat them first.

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dabrownman on Sun, 08/18/2013 - 16:40

Michael Wilson piece of panettone perfection!  Not much else to say really except it must be the only bread allowed in paradise :-)  Just great baling Michael

Happy baking

Cheers dabrownman, Why am I now picturing myself eating this on a tropical island, with palm trees, white sand and a clear blue sea at the shore... I wonder! :) 

Thank you, really appreciate your comment.

Regards, Michael

Hi,  These look amazing.   What hydration is the levain?   I remember you said you fed at 18 hour intervals in another post.   Any other tips?  

is normally 50% hydration, sometimes lower. Storage of the mother dough is at 18C and is kept with varying methods, either in water, tied in cloth or free in the container. It is fed every 12hrs, (the tying method can be extended to 20hrs). To use for panettone at least three refreshments are made at 28C every four hours. Or every 3 hours if storage of the mother is in water or free.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Michael

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annie the chef on Sun, 08/18/2013 - 19:48

Your panettone is absolutely magnificent.

Cheers,

Annie

What can I say Michael... fantastic!!! As you know, this recipe had given me many problems in the past - but on the few occasions I've actually managed to make it, it was delicious. I've never made it as well as this though! Congratulations. I think it's time I had another go...

David

Thanks David. You know, you weren't the only one who had problems with this formula. This was third time lucky for me. I am quite chuffed with the result myself..! Please try it again. I wish you good luck.

Michael

hi Michael,

I was thinking about my starter and your suggestion that the LAB count was too high (for those who don't know, I keep it at 100%) so yesterday I took a small amount, converted it to 50% and then gave it two additions feedings, as per Massari's instructions, for a total of 3 feeds over 12 hours - the first feeding was the conversion.

This morning I made the second impasto and... it worked! Not perfectly I suspected - it seemed just a little too slack, but at least not a batter. I've just taken it out of the oven and it's flat on top, so not a complete success, and burnt!!! (I'm using an unfamiliar oven, again). One test only is not "proof", but it strongly suggests that the problem has been (and is) in my starter all along. Time to convert permanently to a 50% I think. It's strange, my starter has worked for every other panettone recipe I've tried (I don't know if you saw my posting of panettone a tre impasti, which you should try next if you have the time) but with paradiso it seems the starter must have the perfect acidity level. So although another (partial) failure today, I'm feeling very happy! Let's see what happens with a correctly maintained Italian starter.

David

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ananda on Mon, 08/19/2013 - 07:39

Magnificent and beautiful seem to be the right words, Michael.

Best wishes to you

Andy

That's a tremendous panettone!  Excellent work!

Paul

spot on! I bet they serve Panettones like this there

This is truly a thing of beauty Michael, and a fitting example of all the hard work and effort you've put in over the last year or two of concentrating on making these particularly challenging breads. It may look somewhat like a cake, and have some common ingredients, but the similarities end there. Even a delicate foam cake such as Angel Food is far easier to produce reliably than any Pannetone, particularly when  the Pannetone has the flour/fat/sugar ratio your Paradiso has, requiring precise mixing and fermentation to achieve the feathery crumb of your bread. Beautifully executed Michael, you have every good reason to be chuffed about your results!

All the best,

Franko

That panettone looks wonderful!  Would you be able to share your mixing process for each of the kneadings?  For those of us with far less experience than you, it would be tremendously helpful to know the steps you took for adding ingredients, mixing times, etc.  Thanks.

Thanks man.

Mixing times vary. I can't really teach you with mere words alone. Only hands on experience will teach you. But I would say that recognising when the dough takes rope during mixing is key to understanding this tricky procedure. 

The method is in the book.

Michael, I lost this masterpiece of yours! It's simply perefct, probably the most beautiful I remember. Not even Luciana ever made such a beautiful panettone, and she made literally hundreds (so now the challenge is on:-) ).

Do I read correctly? sugar + honey amount to 70% with respect to flour? and with a flour with W280? what brand is it?

  Nico

HI Nico.

Thanks. You read correctly, yes! However the W280 may be a misprint. I used something like W330...

Cheers,

Michael

Hi this is really a work of art. I would like to try it but I must be dense (like my Rye Breads)...I do not understand the measurements in the recipe. Is the first one grams? What are the second ones? and what is Flour 330? I use Pendleton Mills Power Flour which is a high Gluten four that preforms admirably in a wide range of breads that require a lot of manipulation. Do you think I could use it? I get the fact that this is a difficult recipe but the results you have achieved are inspiring.

Your Panattone makes me want to throw rocks at the boxed ones from Italy!! Keep posting you have the knack for being a world class baker! Pam

Cheers Pam.

All the figures are in grams. First column is my scaled down version of the original formula in the second column. The W value represents the strength of the flour (search alveograph). The flour you mention will be fine I'm sure being that it's labelled high gluten.

Michael

Toast

MsLisa on Fri, 03/17/2017 - 08:23

I hate to sound dumb, but are the numbers in the first column in grams?

Spectacular! I am new to the forum and just saw these photos. Are you still making panettone? I am curious about the natural yeast starter; I tried Francesco Elmi's recipe but obviously didn't prep the yeast the right way, as it never got that solid--was mostly a sponge. He said to feed 3-to -1 three times, but I interpreted that as 3 water + flour to 1 starter. Was I off?

Thanks for your comment. I don't bake so much these days but I'm still very much involved in the fermentation game.

The refreshments are typically:

1 part starter to 1 part flour at 50% hydration.

[1]:[0.5]:[1] (starter:water:flour).

Done every 3-4 hours at ~28C. The dough must triple in volume each time!

Cheers

Toast

davina on Sun, 09/24/2017 - 13:26

This bread is  beautifully made.  As I am not good at baking, do you mind to tell me how long the first dough has to ferment?  Can I use the regular bread flour?  How should i prepare the starter before it becomes  Levito Naturale.  So for 286g of Flour, do you make one big panettone or you divided into several small ones?  

I really want to try to bake this one.  Thanks.

Thanks.

First dough is 10-12 hours at 24-26C.

 

Can I use the regular

bread flour?

 

Yes.

 

How should i prepare the starter before it becomes  Levito

Naturale.

As standard refresh 3 times.

 

So for 286g of Flour, do you make one big panettone or you

divided into several small ones?

 

For this quantity of flour as the formula shows makes 1 x 1KG Panettone.

Hey I have been trying panettone for a while. 
I don't know if you know this guy .

https://www.thisisfromroy.com/

I am sure you do. What do you think his secret is. Flour Brand, Oven type. 
I am going crazy trying to achieve similar results. I do you mix by hand or mixer on slow followed by stretch and folds or just mixer.  

 

I read of Roy Shvartzapel when wild-yeast posted about him here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/49703/how-roy-shvartzapel-revolutionizing-panettone

His secret? Experience!

Shvartapel consulted Iginio Massari, arguably the "god" of panettone.

I understand from your other post you are curious as how one can achieve the very open crumb..

It is clear, at least from my perspective that he has duplicated the methods of Massari. Visually his panettone looks the same yet Shvartzapel has created something new by incorporating different flavour combinations. I would bet that Roy probably acquired some of Massari's natural yeast starter too.

It's not a case of adopting stretch and folds. Massari recommends using a flour that isn't too strong. Gluten is the mesh, the network that all the other ingredients follow. If there less gluten per the same volume the crumb will open up. This is just one underlying principle. Dough strength and acidity is another...

What recipe are you following?

Toast

GustavoSM on Mon, 12/18/2017 - 05:16

I'll make my first panettone (I've been making sourdough bread for about three years) and I have a few questions:

1) By what I read, people like to keep the starter with 40% or 50% hidratation and to feed at leas 3 times in de baking day. Is that right?

2) Some people recomend bathing the starter in the morning for about 10 minuts in water with sugar (how much sugar??????) to control the PH. Is that right?

3) Should I use my starter as allways (feed and wait for the peak before use)?

4) Should I use a baking stone and mist in the oven?

5) Wich recipe should I use? I got three: two of your posts (best panettone iginio massari and perfect panettone) and one from matt tinder.

6) Aditional tips.

Thank you!!!

Sounds like you've done your research. Most of what you mention is normal.

1. The starter, "lievito madre" falls somewhere between 40-50% hydration. It is refreshed at least three times before proceeding to the primo impasto.

2. Yes after the longer storage period (12-24 hours) the starter dough is sliced and allowed to bathe for 20 minutes in sweetened water made with 1-2 grams of sugar (sucrose) per litre of water. This step doesn't "control pH" as you say but is done to remove acetic acid and alter the oxidation state. The pieces are then wrung out and flour is added to make a refreshment. Less water is needed, around 35-40% to make a dough of the correct consistency.

3. The starter must triple in volume with each refreshment. It may be that if the flour used isn't strong enough it might not triple. If doubling occurs in 2-3hours then that is acceptable.

4. This is not necessary for this kind of bake

5. They're all good. Pick one.

6. Just jump in the deep end and learn to swim..

 

Merry Christmas!!

Tomorrow I will start... But first, another question...

1) Should the first dough pass the widowpane test?

2) Matt Tinder asks to mix sugar and egg yolk "until sugar dissolves, yolk lightens in color and mixture falls from whisk in ribbons. Massari says nothing... Should I do that?

Thank you and sorry for all those questions... I will jump in the deep, but I need some floater 

1. As a consequence of mixing correctly the resulting dough will pass the windowpane test. It's not something you should aim for though.

2. Massari doesn't do this. It's not necessary. There are many ways to achieve the same thing.

Toast

GustavoSM on Sat, 12/23/2017 - 03:37

I did it! I've never ate something like this before. Sooooo much difference from the version you buy here in Brazil. 

I did your 'perfect panettone', but only with raisins. I also used orange and lemon zest (as in another iginio massari recipe). I have controlled the temperature all the time. I should have used a little less water on the second dough (or my flour should be more strong).

Next time I'm sure it will be even better.

Here is a photo (can't upload right... the right side is the bottom and the left side is the top)

I am mesmerized by the sheer perfection of your impasto natural panettone! For sure this what perfect looks like. I am humbled, and inspired to keep trying!

Best regards,

Will F.