quick question...do breads made with up to 50% poolish/biga (and up to 16 hour preferment) rise faster once mixed and kneaded than the same bread made all in one go....i.e. With more yeast
A dough's rising speed depends, all other factors being equal, upon the amount of yeast you've added. If your preferment (poolish, biga, etc.) has more yeast in it than an equal weight of a dough mixed with only granular yeast, it will rise faster. How can anyone know how much yeast is in the preferment? I haven't a clue.
A preferment doesn't necessarily have lots of yeast in it. It might; it might not. What it might have is more lactobacilli (bacteria which produces the souring of a dough mixture).
What is the practical application of your question's answer?
My poolish has the recommended 0.25% yeast (of total preferment flour/water) and balance goes into final mix so what I'm wondering does that mean that final rise will be faster because half the dough is already inoculated with yeast - the amounts are the same just extra step and time added in....I'm assuming it is faster?
I've experimented with Hamelman's Rustic Bread recipe by using a preferment and without (same amount of total yeast) and have seen no difference. Flavor is better with the pre-ferment.
but the poolish isn't 16 hours old, 8 at the most and using only 1/16th of a tsp of yeast - just a pinch and only 10-20% of the flour in the mix. Yeast reproduces every 90 minutes or so. As long as there is food to metabollize, the yeast will continue to reproduce every 90 minutes. In 16 hours the yeast will have doubled 10.66 times. using 1/4 tsp of yeast, in 90 minute there would have been the equivalent of 1/2 tsp of yeast in the mix. At the 3 hour mark there would have been a 1 tsp equivalent, at 4.5 hours 2 tsp of yeast and at 6 hours 4 tsp of yeast. In 16 hours you would have the the equivalent of 256 tsp of yeast. The problem is that there isn't that much food in half the dough of a loaf of bread and this is overkill to say the least.
A 50% pre-fermented flour 1/4 tsp yeast poolish that is 16 hours old would have way more yeast in it than a normal yeast bread recipe. The idea is to slow things down so the flavor that the yeast produces during fermentation can develop. You can slow a poolish down by lowering the temperature and retarding it in the fridge but at room temperature 72 F yeast will double every 90 minutes with enough food.
Your poolish will be much faster to make a loaf id bread when it hits the dough flour than putting a couple of tsp yeast in dough flour to make bread.
Thanks for that I generally put in 0.25% of poolish flour which is a pinch, into 50% and leave it over night at temperatures closer to 60 and it takes about 12 hours to get to a stage where float test works....Im really interested in experimenting with maximising flavour through slow fermentation and although I love sourdough I want to try commercial yeast as another way to make bread and get different textures, etc so thought I'd start on 50% and move down
they do at 72 F but that would still equate to 65 tsp of yeast at 16 hours. A smidgen of yeast is considered 1/32 of a tsp yeast there is such a thing and 2 smidgens make a pinch, So a real smidgen at 16 hours and 60 F would be be the equivalent of 10 tsp of yeast. That is why a pinch of yeast (1/16 a tsp) at 6 hours and 72 F is plenty with 20% prefermented flour. But smidgen of yeast (1/32 tsp) would actually be 5 times too much at 16 hours and 60 F.
Thanks for that I can't imagine 1/32 - well I'm going to try less than 1/16 for 50% poolish for about 12 hours at around 60F and see how we go...I didn't realise smidgeen had a numeric value to be honest I thought smidgen was an irish word if you want smaller we would say smidgeen :)
A dough's rising speed depends, all other factors being equal, upon the amount of yeast you've added. If your preferment (poolish, biga, etc.) has more yeast in it than an equal weight of a dough mixed with only granular yeast, it will rise faster. How can anyone know how much yeast is in the preferment? I haven't a clue.
A preferment doesn't necessarily have lots of yeast in it. It might; it might not. What it might have is more lactobacilli (bacteria which produces the souring of a dough mixture).
What is the practical application of your question's answer?
so there aren't much LAB in them.
My poolish has the recommended 0.25% yeast (of total preferment flour/water) and balance goes into final mix so what I'm wondering does that mean that final rise will be faster because half the dough is already inoculated with yeast - the amounts are the same just extra step and time added in....I'm assuming it is faster?
I've experimented with Hamelman's Rustic Bread recipe by using a preferment and without (same amount of total yeast) and have seen no difference. Flavor is better with the pre-ferment.
cool thanks for the clarification
but the poolish isn't 16 hours old, 8 at the most and using only 1/16th of a tsp of yeast - just a pinch and only 10-20% of the flour in the mix. Yeast reproduces every 90 minutes or so. As long as there is food to metabollize, the yeast will continue to reproduce every 90 minutes. In 16 hours the yeast will have doubled 10.66 times. using 1/4 tsp of yeast, in 90 minute there would have been the equivalent of 1/2 tsp of yeast in the mix. At the 3 hour mark there would have been a 1 tsp equivalent, at 4.5 hours 2 tsp of yeast and at 6 hours 4 tsp of yeast. In 16 hours you would have the the equivalent of 256 tsp of yeast. The problem is that there isn't that much food in half the dough of a loaf of bread and this is overkill to say the least.
A 50% pre-fermented flour 1/4 tsp yeast poolish that is 16 hours old would have way more yeast in it than a normal yeast bread recipe. The idea is to slow things down so the flavor that the yeast produces during fermentation can develop. You can slow a poolish down by lowering the temperature and retarding it in the fridge but at room temperature 72 F yeast will double every 90 minutes with enough food.
Your poolish will be much faster to make a loaf id bread when it hits the dough flour than putting a couple of tsp yeast in dough flour to make bread.
Thanks for that I generally put in 0.25% of poolish flour which is a pinch, into 50% and leave it over night at temperatures closer to 60 and it takes about 12 hours to get to a stage where float test works....Im really interested in experimenting with maximising flavour through slow fermentation and although I love sourdough I want to try commercial yeast as another way to make bread and get different textures, etc so thought I'd start on 50% and move down
they do at 72 F but that would still equate to 65 tsp of yeast at 16 hours. A smidgen of yeast is considered 1/32 of a tsp yeast there is such a thing and 2 smidgens make a pinch, So a real smidgen at 16 hours and 60 F would be be the equivalent of 10 tsp of yeast. That is why a pinch of yeast (1/16 a tsp) at 6 hours and 72 F is plenty with 20% prefermented flour. But smidgen of yeast (1/32 tsp) would actually be 5 times too much at 16 hours and 60 F.
Thanks for that I can't imagine 1/32 - well I'm going to try less than 1/16 for 50% poolish for about 12 hours at around 60F and see how we go...I didn't realise smidgeen had a numeric value to be honest I thought smidgen was an irish word if you want smaller we would say smidgeen :)
those measurements. I have one. It was a surprise to me too that they weren't just random words.