Hi, I'm new here. I tried to see if there was another post like this but couldn't see it, sorry if I missed it.
So, I'm brand new to baking bread and only made two loaves so far, but came across the same problem both times, which you'll see in the picture. I can't even think how to describe it!
I thought I had done something wrong while kneading the first time, cause it never got really elastic or smooth like they're suppose to (despite a whole hour of kneading but I think i just suck at it). I added more water the second time, it was looking better, but now I guess it might be the temperature? Second loaf was in a different place and position in the oven.
I can't find the link I took the recipe from at the moment, but this was it:
500g bread flour, 7g active dry yeast, 1tsp salt, 350ml water (but I needed more)
I used a fan oven so recipe said to do 15 mins at 200c, then down to 170c for 30 mins. I thought this looked like the easiest one to start with, but I can't figure out what I've done!
Both taste fine at least, so I'm not too disappointed with my first tries. But I'd like to make it better!
Looks like you had great oven spring which means the dough has surged up when it went into the oven and burst at the weakest point. It is really quite dramatic. Is there a gaping hole underneath? If so it may be that you haven't quite folded the dough into shape quite right and trapped a large bubble inside? I don't claim to be an expert mind you, others with greater experience will be along to help I'm sure but could we see the interior once it's cut?
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
So I think the most important point is it looks like it's crusted over too quickly with the steam escaping from the weakest point like Elsasquerino said. That can be fixed with scoring the loaf and steaming.
What could also be going on here is under proofing causing an exaggerated oven spring.
But as far as 'failures' go it's a good loaf. Bet the crumb is still fine and it's tasty to-boot.
P.s. your fan oven will dry it out quicker. If you have a bigger pot to fit over the loaf tin (with room for the loaf to expand) then placing this pot over the tin for 20 minutes will solve the crusting over too quickly. It's also an effective way to steam as it is difficult to introduce steam into modern fan ovens. After 20 minutes remove the overturned pot/pan and bake until golden brown. This and scoring the dough will help.
I agree, just take a sharp serrated knife (like a steak knife) or a razor blade and cut fairly deeply down the middle of the loaf before putting it into the oven.
I'm not sure how comfortable you would be with baking this loaf on a baking sheet or tray instead of shaped in a pan. It's a 'lean' bread (meaning just flour, water, salt and yeast with no enrichment such as dairy, oil or sugar) and might do well just shaped into a round or 'log' shape. You could proof it (final rise) on a piece of baking parchment on a baking sheet, then score the top and bake it. See how you like it!
If anyone might suggest that myself, it looks to me like the dough was too voluminous for the tin. Perhaps a free form with a slash is the way forward with this recipe? I'd be proud of that spring for a second bake though, wouldn't you guys? It's a monster.
that was given to me on Monday. Not to look "a gift horse in the mouth," but to be honest, the baguette was too big, heavy and the crumb tight and close with no air pockets inside. It took 3 hours to get here from the old capital of Luang Prabang and made in a start up bakery. Pictures show that the brick walls of the bakery are still in construction and there are no windows, doors or screens yet. Even though the impressing scoring opened up nicely, the flavour was flat of baked flour and not enough fermentation. Does any of that sound familiar? It was given to me with a big heart so I'm thinking of ways to recycle it, like shredded crumbs, dripping in butter garlic bread, roasting, croutons or something. I'll find a way.
The first things that pop to mind for both is to try longer fermentation, longer bake if more crust colour is desired and add steam to the oven during the initial spring. Perhaps as others have suggested less dough in the tin or free style and scoring. Try one idea at a time (if you can) but get steam into the oven and score the top of the loaf if a tight "skin" has developed during the proof. Might want to start out hot (steam will lower the temp a bit) and turn the fan or oven off for the first 5 to 10 minutes, then turn it back on after some rising and expanding using a slightly lower temperature than the pre-heat.
Happy baking!
Oh, and what is that neat looking contraption behind the loaf with the red mugs parked under it? :)
Mini has suggested a number of things to try, but since you didn't specify the timing or the fermentation temperatures involved I am going to suggests a couple of more ideas to think about.
1. read about making the dough window pane before you set it to bulk ferment. That way you know you have fully developed the gluten. It looks pretty good, but perhaps a little under developed. I would shoot for 67-69% water to flour ratio (by weight). The end result is quite sensitive to dough hydration but it is also sensitive to flour quality. Your flour seems to be strong enough to do what you want it to do.
2. 7g of yeast for 500g of flour is 1.4%. That seems high to me, and too much yeast and too little fermentation will produce the result you see. I would suggest perhaps half that much yeast for that much flour. Check your dough temperature and perhaps adjust the bulk fermentation time to let it fully double in volume before shaping. Fermentation temperatures between 72°F and 78°F should double in about 1 hr to 1:15 but don't get anxious if it is slow, there are lots of reasons for that and unless you are in a hurry (which you should not be) just let it go. There are lots of videos on YouTube that can help you learn about how to judge when it is ready to shape.
3. Under-proofed. You could easily take 30% of the dough out of the pan and it would still rise well over the top before you put it into the oven. I suspect that your pan was intended to make a smaller loaf so try scaling the formula to 600g and waiting for the dough to fully double before you put it in the oven.
Wait until the dough is soft but not flabby before baking - this won't make much sense now, but you will quickly come to understand it if you do a split batch and wait an hour between baking the two loaves. If the second one collapses, try waiting just 30 min the next time. You really need to run this experiment so that YOU get to know what an over-proofed loaf looks/feels like. Flabby is when it falls if you touch it or pick up the pan. Plan to bake 20 min before that happens :-)
The oven temperature is probably a little low - I would go with 200°C for 35 min and if it looks too dark reduce the temperature by 25°C for the last 10-15 min. Check the temperature with an oven thermometer.
one teaspoon of salt it 5g or 1% of 500g of flour a bit low
two level teaspoons would be 10g or 2% average
So depending on your preference, you can add a little. That also tends to help with crust colour and rising.
Wow, thank you all. So many good suggestions!
I had been thinking myself that the tin was too small. I'll try one without it first, but if that doesn't work out I'll try in a bigger one. I'm not so confident with my ability to shape it well enough! I'll try these before I try covering it in the oven. What happens if the tin is too big, if that's even a thing?
The first loaf I had scored on the top, but looking back I probably didn't do it deep enough. How deep do you suggest?
I had also thought that it may be too much yeast, it rose really quickly and I don't think my kitchen is especially warm. Took probably 40 mins to double. Should I have waited the extra 20 or so minutes anyway? Im not entirely sure what happens if you leave it too long. Should I be checking the temperature of it as it goes?
I can't figure out how to add another picture just to show what inside the loaf looked like! There's probably something really obvious I'm missing.
Thank you all again for the tips! They're very much appreciated!
Oh, and the contrapt is just a little Bluetooth speaker. I like to listen to stories in the kitchen :P
Okay, I figured out the picture but I don't know how to rotate it haha
Hey, we all have necks (I hope). That's a beautiful crust. I would suggest that you put your bread lower in the oven, or place a sheet of tin foil above it.
The crumb shot says that your dough is well developed so your kneading is just fine (i.e., don't do anything different).
And it confirms that the loaf was somewhat under-proofed when it went into the oven.
If you are going to slash, it needs to be tailored to the dough. If it is far under-proofed you want to make a deep cut to allow the dough to expand without blowing out the side (as your first photo exhibits). For a perfectly proofed loaf that is in a pan, no slash is necessary and it will not blow out, just stretch a little (though probably only on one side).
A pan that is "too small" will produce a loaf that is just less tall (and in the extreme will not reach the top of the pan). If the dough fills the pan about half way after shaping, you should be good (because it will double in volume during proofing and you get additional volume growth as a result of oven spring.
To get the photos oriented correctly you will need to do the rotation on your computer before you upload it. There is no facility (that I can find) to rotate an image that has already been uploaded.
Thanks, Doc. I was posting straight from my phone, so think I just made it all more complicated for myself!
So, for the next attempt, it's looking like I should reduce the yeast and let it proof for longer (less yeast means it will take longer as well, right? I'll have to watch more videos about knowing when it's done). Then try to shape it without the loaf tin, but let it proof again for longer, I left it about 20 mins on the second attempt. Score the top a bit deeper and then put it in the oven lower down for the same amount of time? I'm not sure if I should change the temperature yet, maybe see how this goes first.
If I split the dough to follow your suggestion, Doc, will the baking times change? Also now wondering if I can try half in the tin and half just free-formed and see what the difference is like.
loaf yesterday and it was definitely too much dough for a standard bread pan. (I don't have one here.) I shaped and pinched a nice thick dough log, pinched it shut and dusted it with flour. I put it top side down into a long banneton. You probably don't have one of these things but you can also make a big cloth donut twisting a towel and cover it with another towel. Dust with some flour to prevent sticking and prop up the sides with some canned food or noodle boxes, whatever. Deep is more important the wide.
When the risen dough looks almost double in size, carefully remove the supports and roll it over onto baking parchment or floured cardboard so it slides easily into a hot oven. I flip my baking tray upside down in the oven so I don't have to deal with the edge and that same edge helps trap heat under the baking surface. So now you can decide to score or not score. If the dough is very soft and starting to flatten out, don't score. If it seems to be holding it's shape to an acceptable degree, try scoring it.
Think of the exposed dough skin as a basket holding the dough, where you cut, the basket will open. You want to leave enough unscored dough on the sides to hold up the loaf and score in such a way that the dough doesn't pour out sideways. Many single side scores roll back like a roll top desk - sort of like your loaf that tore along the side. You can try that kind of score along one side and the top will open and rotate to the other side.
To break up the top but still leave some bands across to hold up the sides, like handles do for a basket, Try some diagonal cuts. Imagine a toy train track running down the middle of the loaf. A one inch strip from one end to the other. The trick is to stay inside those imaginary lines. Start with a sharp edge at the end of the loaf and cut a 4 inch line from one side of the track to the other. Back up, start half way up from the first cut and about half an inch away and make another cut from one side of the imaginary track to the other, also about 4 inches long to the other end of the loaf. Now slide it into the hot oven before it expands too much. Next time try it adding an angle to the cut so you can compare them.
My loaf took 30 minutes to bake at 200°C. I started with 40 on the timer and 250°C (the oven cooled drastically when I opened the door) but it was looking and smelling so good and nicely brown I took it out and knocked on the bottom listening for clean hollowness.
Details... just for info... The basket I used during the final proof is 5 inches by 10.5 inches long on the inside and 3" deep. I let it rise to the edge and dome up about an inch above the edge in the middle. The finished loaf came out 12" long and averages 6" wide and just under 4" high.
I can post a pick if you're interested.
Mini
Sorry for the slow reply! Thanks for all that!
I would like to see a picture, might help me understand a bit clearer. I haven't had a chance yet to try a third loaf, but I will be tomorrow.
So just to make sure I'm understanding properly, I should imitate the shape of a pan/tin, with cloth to protect it?