Hi bakers! I'm a long-time lurker (I think I've posted.... once?), and I'm grateful to the TFL community for solving some of my thorniest baking conundrums with a mix of beautifully written formulas and methods, in-depth discussion and lovely, illustrative pictures.
My newest question, an answer to which I oddly can't find anywhere on the net: I've been making a nice buttermilk Danish rugbrod, very dense, aggressively seedy and adaptable to whatever seeds and things I have in my pantry drawer. It's a pretty standard formula, the only oddity being that you add all of the (100% hydration dark rye) starter in with the soaker the night before (so all the seeds, and equal parts water, buttermilk and starter), with the flours (equal parts dark rye and AP) and salt and whatnot added the next morning. What I can't seem to find is any solid information on how long to bulk ferment the dough, and then how long to ferment the shaped loaves (though of course they're more slapped in a loaf pan with a spoon than shaped). Right now I'm doing it all at room temp which averages about 65-70, depending on weather. I've been fermenting most of the day (6-8 hours), then slap into pans about 1/4" from the top, then proof again 'til it crests the pan. Gives me a nice loaf, though I have been wondering whether it's meant to go longer and have just a touch more rise. Forgive the lack of pictures to illustrate. All of the formulas and recipes I'm seeing say things like "then proof for seven hours" or "then proof until ready to go in the oven", but of course that doesn't really tell me anything. I'd say my bulk ferment (which looks nice and airy) goes to about a 50% increase in volume or so, at which point it starts smelling a little harsher, a little less yogurty/fruity; the shaped proof more like 15-20% increase.
I've been happy with the loaves, but want to see what others are doing re proofing times with their rugbrods.
Thanks in advance!
Heather
I bulk ferment and final proof till just when holes begin to appear on top. Not too many as then it's over proofing but as soon as I spot one or two I move onto the next stage.
That's with a 100% rye loaf at 90-100% hydration though.
You mean visible when you're looking straight down at the top of the dough, like the little holes in the tops of pancakes when they're ready to be flipped?
Can't say about pancakes but like when your starter haa peaked. Works when the Rye 'dough' is 100% hydration. I make Rye dough like a paste. Mix and bulk ferment till holes begin to appear. Then I'll spoon it into a bread pan and smooth it over with the back of a wet spoon then proof till a hole or two just begin to appear. Then into a preheated oven.
Just reread your comment. Yes! On top :)
I see what you're saying. This makes me want to give the recipe a try with 100% rye. Thanks Lechem!
rye is in the mix, the hydration and whether it is going in a pan or not, You have to decide how much you want the loaf to final proof 50-80% before you can size the dough properly for the pan size. A 100% rye at 100% hydration is way different than a 60% rye at 80% hydration for both ferment and proof.
will give you a larger bulking window simply because it has wheat in it.
More fluff? You could add altus or day old baked rye bread crumbled into the dough.
I've never tried the altus technique before, and you have a good wealth of information on it on another thread, the "altus and formula" thread. Came up when I googled "altus". My partner says I have "a Depression-era sense of thrift", and- especially as a professional baker running my own show- it's true, I am pretty obsessive about cutting waste. This sounds perfect. Have you noticed a marked difference between using altus vs. using crumbs? Tenderness/rise/etc?
I find them rather heavy, better to use fine crumbs with cookie dough, apple and nut fillings. I like the larger torn crumbs moistened in the liquids better, the torn or cut surfaces lend some support to the gluten matrix. Kind of like what straw does for a clay brick. It might also give a place for gas to be trapped instead of up and out of the dough in later stages of fermentation. I add it mostly for flavour, texture and added dough support. And it tends to speed up fermentation, the yeasts love it too as food.