Hello!
I've been making great sourdough breads for awhile but I wanted to see how the pros do it and so I have the Tartine bread book but I keep failing at the same spot each time.
I just did two batches, about two hours ago - slight timing differences between each but same result.
The dough is so puffy I cannot shape the loaves. It seems right at first, I can get great surface tension etc but when I start to fold, it immediately puffs up and after a second fold it's just a mass of dough again. I end up shaping and shaping and then just dumping it into a basket where is continues this maddening rise and of course fails when baked. Fill of massive holes and kinda flat.
I have tried less bulk rise times, more bulk rise times, less and more water, it always seems to fall apart of this point. I know my starter is super active, not sure if that's the issue.
I'm using AP flour as suggested in the book and kitchen is always at 75F. Right now I have 4 batches sitting in the kitchen, not sure I should even bother baking them.
Thanks
Craig
I pat mine to get the biggest bubbles out of the dough and use the envelope fold method to shape. I do it twice with a rest in between. When I do the final shaping, I really pull firmly and the resulting ball is about half what it was. I don't worry about it because it will poof up again during proofing.
If my dough is really sticky, I sometimes do the shaping a third time. I do end up using lots of flour in that case as well.
I didn't know I could do that, yes I think trying to force it flat again might help, maybe I'm not being rough enough with the dough. I did use a ton of flour on one batch, I think it had superglue mixed in ;)
It sounds like the yeast is very active. I'm assuming you are trying to do this shaping after the bulk ferment (and the stretch and fold sequences at the beginning of that stage). How, where, and for how long (and at what temperature) do you bulk ferment?
I second the motion to pat it out and stretch it fairly flat after the bulk ferment, then fold it in three (one way or both ways if you can before it tightens up), then let it rest for 20 minutes before you round it into a ball. Do you do the thing where you cup your hands around it and rotate it on the bench to tighten the skin? You say it's 'puffy', but is it stretchy? A description of 'puffy' and then falling flat with big holes when baked sounds like it's overproofed - a very common thing with Tartine bread (just do a search on this site; you'll find all kinds of people with the same problem!)
My yeast is insane, let's go with that - my other loaves pop so much during baking they can almost take the lid off my dutch ovens.
My steps are mix, 1 hour rest then add salt/water, 3 hours of stretch and fold at 75F would be my bulk ferment. I'd say it doubles in volume. I then empty onto my board, pre-shape and rest again for 30 minutes. Then final shaping. Yes I use my hand and the dough knife to help round it and it creates a nice tension. For round breads this seems ok, will see how it bakes shortly, I'm shooting for batards and it's when I try roll it, that it puffs up. When I say it collapses, I guess thats a temporary thing, in the basket it definitely rises again, a ton but when baked it didn't do much, kinda expanded in the dutch oven instead of holding it's shape.
I'll try again tomorrow and flatten out the dough first. Thanks!
Sounds like overproofing. Tartine bread is supposed to increase by about 20-30% in 3-4 hours, not double (100%). You can decrease starter to 15% or decrease time by up to an hour.
Thanks, can I save what I have in baskets or just start again tomorrow?
Put it in the plastic bag and fridge and you can continue with process or shaping it it tomorrow. The dough will be more stiff after being retarded and much more friendly to work with. So if you are about to shape it, just shape it and you can retard it again or proof it on the bench.
You can always use your fridge if you need to make a brake. That is the beauty of SD.
Happy baking, Joze
Thanks Joze, I didn't know I could simply re-shape it after it was in the fridge. I went ahead and finished baking 3, 1 was in the fridge and 1 I had shaped 3 times, they actually came out ok. The flavor difference was worth the effort. More sour and very elastic bread, can't wait to get the pop right! I re-shape the last one tomorrow and bake it.