Hi everyone! I have just had a disaster with my first panettone attempt. They were rising happily in the first 20 minutes and then collapsed. It may well be caused by opening the oven door and the sudden change in temperature when I tried to test it's doneness with a skewer. But I also wondered if one can overproof with the first stage? I used the recipe on the Wild Yeast website, and refrigerated the dough after it had risen (trebled in volume) twice. Bad planning! No skewers in the house, and it had to wait. It rose fine after the final dough and looked 'right' before the bake. They did not rise to the rim of the panettone case though, but came pretty close. So my questions--
1) could the acidity have been affected because the first dough was was overproofed?
2) is it an unthinkably stupid question, of course I should not have opened the door, duh (though some recipes say check with skewer that it's cooked through, and if getting too dark on top, to stick a cup of water in)?
3) I also may have overloaded the top by overcrowding it with almonds.
4) I baked at 180 degrees, for a total of 45-50 minutes. I've seen instructions range from 35 mins to 1.5 hours. Is there a way to check without a thermometer?
So many thanks! I am of course disappointed, but the house smells heavenly and I am suddenly buoyed by the fact that I won't be giving any away!
That's based on Suas' recipe IIRC? That's a pretty tough bread to make. I would suggest following the recipe to a t, err on the side of the caution with the final proof, go for smaller molds, and develop the final dough as best you can.
1. It should not be an issue if it did not totally run away on you.
2. Actually, I don't think it's a big deal - I opened oven half way through the bake every time and nothing ever happened.
3. My current feeling is that even nothing on top is too much - you can always glaze once it's cold and stick some roasted almonds then if you want.
4. That sounds about right for an average-sized panettone.
Is there a typo?
We don't all use Fahrenheit. :)
1. I'm not too sure what the comment about acidity has to do with over-proofing but you have described perfectly the consequences of doing so.
2. You are right, opening the oven door on an over-proofed enriched dough is a bad idea.
3. No, the almonds won't have caused the collapse. Sadly, you've already identified the problem.
4. It might be worth investing in a digital oven thermometer if only to calibrate your oven. Over time, oven temperatures drift and it's worth checking once or twice a year. Of course, once you've got the thermometer (a shielded cable probe is best) you'll never have to worry again. It will improve the constancy of your baking immensely. You can also use it to take the internal temperature of a loaf with precision. No need for skewers (which can lead to over-baking).
Two final comments. First, just keep trying. Almost no-one gets a new bread right the first time. That's especially true for something as tricky as a panettone. Second, your flour is critical, especially the protein level. You don't want it too low or the panettone will collapse regularly. Too high and the gluten will make it unpleasantly dense. I use a Tipo '00' (pasta) flour at 11.7%. It works perfectly (and I've made more than thirty this year already with another thirty on order for Christmas).
this recipe. Evrything went fine untill I turned the panettone to cool upside down on skewes and the they slid put onto the floor. I had made origami panettone molds out of parchment and forgot that nothing sticks to parchment and away the bread went......
I think at the 20 minute mark it was waty too soon to be poking the bread with a skewer and that caused the collape, Checking it at 40 minutes would have been better for sure.
It is panettone time again - yea!
The site is double and triple posting again.
They taste pretty good for failures, and are well leavened apart from the central collapse. I think it just myst be a combination of everything!
@suave, I don't know IIRC recipe-- is this the most popular one amongst the bakers here. And my husband agrees that the almonds were just too much weight for the dough to support.
@dabrownman, sorry to hear about your panettone avalance; I bet they were still edible. There is no way I'd open the door door for the first 40 minutes.I wondered also if the fact that there were three being in the oven at the same time (which was awkward, as they all had skewers through the cases) needed temperature adjustment.
Yes, thanks for the encouragement to get the thermometer, Roundhaybaker. I think it's about time, given the number of loaves I make every week! Perhaps a new oven too, as the seal is suffering!
The flour was pretty good, though not 00, just the Waitrose Duchy range. I haven't got a pack in front of me, but remember they were quite high protein.
The almonds were overdone, so yes I would omit that. Other than that I guess I would be more meticulous about watching gluten development and not use the mixer.
I'll try to post the pics when I have more time to figure out how that works.
I like the challlenge, so will probably start making another one by the end of this week:)
I did the 2 sets of slap and folds for 20 minutes each one time..... and that was enough for me:-)