I'm finding my way with starting my bread in a machine for kneading and the first rise then shaping by hand and oven baking. As a beginner, I have found bread baking is a little difficult to mix and match recipes. For instance, bread is baked at about 210 F in a bread machine while oven bake ranges from 350 to 500 F. Also, now that I am understanding kneading by hand a little more, I appreciate why my Zo has a shape stage after kneading. I believe it is to finish the kneading that the machines can't really do. Ever successful recipe does what it does with the ingredients for a purpose with timing and rest and temperature. This thread is to discuss methods for cross over baking from machine to oven. What changes are needed? What recipes work? Share your success (or failures) here for discussion.
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Is bread machine kneading for bread machines only? Apparently, that's the conclusion that I'm coming up with. Is it possible to make a successful test of a dough(gluten) window out of any bread machine kneaded dough? Are the natures of the doughs aiming at a different purpose which I don't understand?
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get little respect on these pages, but I have become interested in them as a formula development challenge. When you are at the mercy of a machine's timings the formula becomes more important and is interesting to work up.
Anyway.
Many bread machines have a "dough" cycle that includes warming for a rise. You should be able to use that and stop it before the rise to make a fully developed dough.
The "shape" cycle does not usually increase dough development, but again depending on your machine, the cycle times for the mix may be very short and intended to be used with bread flour - or for whole wheat flour with added vital wheat gluten (which I do not use, hence the challenge of making the type of breads I make in a bread machine.) I cannot make a blanket statement on any of this because it varies quite widely from brand to brand.
Depending on your brand of bread machine, you can also custom program a simple "mix" cycle. Many bakers (including at one time the test kitchen of King Arthur Flour) use Zojirushi (or other brands) bread machines solely as mixers.
Dough development is dough development - whether done by hand, mixer, bread machine, etc. You should be able tho use dough mixed in a bread machine as you would any other dough. It is a matter of getting the machine to mix it long enough.
Hope this helps.
I rarely post or look at TFL, so if you wish to continue this discussion, make sure to reply to my comment. Or send me a PM.
I'm getting back to you. Determined to figure this out. My breads have been dense. After the first rise, when I take them out of the machine to shape, the dough doesn't hold together looking ready to shape. I use a Zo programmed for kneading 20 mins, Rise #1 45 mins, and out of the machine for an hour or two final rise. Any ideas?
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as a mixer and I use it solely for mixing/kneading. Breads I made recently were mixed by Zo and they were all successful. The timing of kneading is important, so is your understanding of gluten development. 20 minutes of kneading by Zo should develop your dough fairly well, but it also depends on your formula. Is your dough well hydrated? What's the hydration of your bread? Bulk ferment (rise #1) for 45minutes seems short to me, your dough may not have fermented properly, but again, I don't know your formula.
To successfully bake a loaf of bread, you need to understand the baking process thoroughly and it takes time and practice, so be patient. But I can assure you, Zo does a good job in kneading and it doesn't just knead for bread machine baking.
The book Rustic European Breads From Your Bread Machine by Linda Eckhart and Diana Butts is mainly about using your machine to knead the dough and then baking in the oven. I have had some good success with their recipes. I got my copy used on Ebay for 3 or 4$.
Just got the book and have read a little of it. It appears to be the book that I needed. I was way off on my timing according to a couple of recipes.
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