hi everyone, once again another failure with caputo (red bag) type 00 flour.
This time I followed Forkish's recipe for Neapolitan style pizza in his new book elements of pizza. The recipe called for 70% hydration. That seemed too wet for me but I decided to plow on and for once follow exactly the instructions. It was horrible. Very little rise, tho soft and easy to stretch. Even worse a very gummy top layer. Also little flavor. He does something interesting which kind of turns bread baking on its head. Basically, mix water and salt, then add yeast and finally flour. knead for 5 min or so, do bulk proofing for 2 hrs, shape into ball and retard for 6 plus hours before forming pizzas.
What gives? What am I doing wrong. I used a baking steel with a hot 500 deg oven. Pizza was lightly topped with marinara sauce.
I have never been able to use type 00 and make a credible pizza. Anyone have any advice?
thanks.
I use both Caputo and Pivetti 00 pizza flours and have never had a problem. The formula I use is the one registered with the EU for regional registration of Vera Pizza Napoletana, which calls for:
58% hydration
0.2% fresh compressed yeast
2% salt
The key is to shape the dough immediately after mixing and cold retard for 12-24 hours, then bake it on a stone at the highest temperature your oven will go (VPN calls for 850-900F, which is well beyond all but wood and coal burners). I bake mine at full convection 550F.
Agreed that Forkish's formula is way too wet, which, as I'm sure you've discovered, leads to sticky and torn dough. As I said, I've never had a problem with the VPN version.
Stan Ginsberg
www.nybakers.com
Hi,
I use 00 flour a lot for pizza, however a brand From the UK Please accept my ignorance, but I am new to this blog and unsure what is meant by 'hydration' if water, then I have found the following ratio to work well. Better still, I am not having to wait more than 20 mins for proving: http://www.lovethekitchen.co.uk/parma-ham-rocket-and-red-onion-pizza/.
I've been baking bread and pizza for many years with very good-to-excellent results yet I have never had great results using 00 flour for pizza when baked in my kitchen oven. However, when using my wood fired oven with a deck temperature of 700 - 800 degrees F nothing makes a better pizza than dough made with 00 flour.
The denizens of pizzamaking.com seem to agree that for 00 flour you really need high oven temperatures, higher than most regular ovens can attain. Do a search at that site (very similar to TFL) and see what you find.
http://farina.tv/it/video/la-ricetta-della-pizza-napoletana-di-gino-sorbillo
I made my pizza dough using Forkish's Neapolitan Pizza recipe for the first time last Sunday. I just got his pizza book and and still reading through the introductory stuff.
My experience was that Forkish's formula works just fine. Yeah it's wetter than traditional, but he explains the rationale for this, and I found it credible. Basically, the kind of pizza dough that gives the best results in a 900dF oven is different from what gives the closest approximation in a 500dF oven. Anyway, by the end of a 3 hour bulk fermentation, the dough was very workable to divide and form balls. By 6 hours later, the dough was as nice as can be for stretching.
The flavor quality is in dispute a casa mia. My wife thought it was excellent. I thought it could have been better. Moreover, at my kitchen's temperature (probably around 74dF), six hours resulted in over-proofed dough. There was nice oven spring, but browning was not very good. I have another ball of dough from this batch which has been refrigerated for 2 days since being formed. I will bake it tonight in a pan, either as a pan pizza or, more likely, focaccia.
In sum, I am not unhappy with either doppio zero flour or Forkish's Neapolitan formula. But I need more experience with it before passing judgement. My wife, the in-house pizza lover in chief, has encouraged a lot of experimentation.
David
After making hundreds upon hundreds of pizzas I settled on 70% hydration and have had nothing but success since. I have not used 00 for years, though, so I don't know exactly how useful this is. When I did use Caputo, I didn't have good results, but that was always in the indoor oven. Outside I haven't had any problems.
I've had mixed results with using only 00 flour. 00 creates a very soft and supple dough, and adds a nice crispy crunch to the crust. However in a home oven I don't like the browning quality.
Lately I use 00 in a fractional way (maybe 10-20% of flour) in the recipe; the rest is a good quality AP flour (like King Arthur or Central Milling Artisan Baker's Craft). This way I get the chew of a high-gluten flour with the crisp snap of the 00. I've used 000 flour from Argentina in this way to give very similar (and pleasing) results.
I bake on a steel at 550F in a gas range with steel on bottom rack. Gives a very nice char.
The thing that's frustrating is that forkish says over and over that his recipe is geared for the home cook with a standard home oven. And it doesn't work - at least for me and at that hydration level. I'm going to try again and drop hydration to 62% as per some suggestions.
I've tried both the sourdough and the biga recipes in his new book. I have been using 00 from the red bag. For both, the doughs were far wetter than what he shows in his video. I had to add quite a bit of flour while I was shaping the dough to get anything close to a pizza dough. I will try a few more times, but it seems like how in FWSY he was overestimated times, here is is overestimating hydration levels.
I've made this recipe, as written, many times with great success. i bulk for 4 hours (after mixing in salt and yeast), shape, let sit room-temp for ½ hour, then to the fridge. I think home-ovens are the issue (which I always have poor results). I put my stone on my out-door grill, turn it on high, and when it reaches 550, I cook for 6 ½ minutes. my results are so good, my head swells at times (kidding)! I know your question was about flour and I use KA AP. I get nice chewy dough from the higher protein level. Try your grill and a longer bulk, I bet you get good results with the 00 flour.