Hi everyone,
I am in the midst of experimenting with my new Bosch (!!!!), and so far I have been very happy with it. I'm wondering if anyone could speak to the best speed for dough development. Recipe books generally refer to speed 2 -- but I understand this varies with different machines. Speed 2 seems a bit slow, to me, but is speed 3 too fast? I noticed that at speed 3 the dough seemed to move closer to the center of the bowl, whereas during speed 1 the dough tended to stay in the middle (which in slow motion looks like a better place for the dough to get worked by the long outside arms). Can anyone weigh in on this?
I've got two batches of baguettes fermenting right now -- a short mix with only speed 1 and an improved mix (which actually still looked pretty shaggy) with <2 minutes of speed 3. We'll see how they come out!
Last week I did a hand mix using the same recipe and got a fantastic open crumb (best I have EVER gotten, picture below) -- and I'm hoping I can replicate it eventually with an improved mix using the Bosch, and a poolish (for some reason I can only get an open crumb with a straight dough -- once I add a poolish, the crumb closes right up!). Many weeks of experimenting ahead!
Steven
Which Bosch?
I have the MUM4, I use the most but also a much bigger one, MUM7 I think, that I don't use that much. Both have totally different kneading systems, motors, ...
The full-size universal kitchen machine plus.
This is a MUM6 I believe. Like the MUM7, that I have, it seems to me that this type of machine in general doesn't work well for bread dough if used on a higher speed. The dough tears too often when pulled around the center arm. This is why I prefer machines with standard shaped bowls and not with ring like containers.
For all the other uses (mill, mixer, ...) the motor block is great.
The motor should be strong enough, so you can give it a try anyways an see how your dough behaves. It is 40 cent a test, and the dough you can still use for pancakes.
Thanks for your response.
How long do you end up mixing your dough for in your Bosch? I've found that after an autolyse on a 600g batch of baguettes (600g of flour, that is, 71% hydration, no preferment), the dough begins to tear after about 1-2 minutes. I've let the machine keep running, just to see if it might come back together into a nice ball of satin-y dough after a longer period of time (6 minutes on speed 1, and 1 minute on speed 3), and afterwards the dough almost looks over-mixed --- it tears easily, it is somewhat sticky, produces no windowpane. Yet I find it hard to believe that a 20 minute autolyse + 7 minutes mixing is enough to over mix. Am i wrong? I have yet to try an experiment where I let the dough just run for 10 minutes on speed 3 -- perhaps that is next. Have you any experience mixing dough in the bosch for this long?
You mix the dough until it's done. There isn't a "right" speed...just about any speed will do, but the time mixing will vary. Seven or eight minutes is probably about right, and you're unlikely to overmix the dough unless you go way beyond that.
I generally only mix for a minute for baguettes, and accomplish the rest of the dough development with folds.
I will note that the Bosch doesn't work well with small amounts of dough; it tends to gather at the center and is only exercised with the blades, rather than the arm. It will eventually develop, but it takes longer. I tend to use the food processor for small quantities.
the difficulty for me is knowing when it's "done" within the context of a Bosch mixer.
Hammelman has said that each type of mixer will produce a different a dough. Having spent some time working in a professional (artisan) bread bakery, I have a good idea of what a properly mixed baguette dough looks like coming out of a spiral mixer (and here, the times match Hammelman's suggestion of 3-5 minutes on speed 1 and 2-3 minutes on speed 2). But at home it's a completely different game since I am not working with 150lb batches of dough and, more importantly, not using a spiral mixer. I have yet to achieve the smooth texture and strength using my bosch mixer, and I guess I'm wondering if I'm mixing too little, or possibly even too much. The tearing and stickiness of my dough almost suggests too much, but I just find it hard to believe that 7 minutes (total) in a bosch would over mix it.
I guess I'm wondering, in your (and other people's) experiences mixing in a Bosch, what is the texture and feel of a properly developed dough (say for an improved mix) dough? Will it ever reach the stage in which it becomes noticeably smooth and creamy?
I have never seen "smooth and creamy" dough. :-) As far as I can tell, that's not really a problem, since the breads seem to turn out as well as any artisan bakery that I'm familiar with. At least, most of the time.
I base "done" solely on gluten development. I do not seek a window pane for any artisan type bread.