San Joaquin Sourdough Baguettes

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dmsnyder on 1 Apr 2013 at 23:15

San Joaquin Sourdough Baguettes

April 1, 2013

My San Joaquin Sourdough originated in Anis Bouabsa's baguettes which had won the prize for the best baguette in Paris in 2008. Bouabsa's baguettes departed from convention in utilizing a 21 hour retardation after bulk fermentation and before dividing and shaping. Jane Stewart (Janedo on TFL) and I initially modified Bouabsa's formula by adding a bit of rye flour and some sourdough starter for flavor. I then omitted the commercial yeast altogether and began using the modified formula to shape as bâtards. Over time, I have tweaked the formula and method in various ways, but have settled on the current one as providing the best product.

Today's bake takes the San Joaquin Sourdough back to its roots, so to speak. I used my current formula and method to make San Joaquin Sourdough baguettes. I am very happy with the results.

 

Total ingredients

Wt (g)

Bakers %

AP Flour

479

89

WW Flour

33

6

Medium rye Flour

29

5

Water

392

72

Salt

10

1.8

Liquid starter

17

3

Total

960

176.8

9.2% of the flour is pre-fermented

Liquid Levain ingredients

Wt (g)

Bakers %

AP Flour

29

70

WW Flour

8

20

Medium rye Flour

4

10

Water

42

100

Liquid starter

17

40

Total

100

240

 

Final dough ingredients

Wt (g)

AP Flour

450

WW Flour

25

Medium rye Flour

25

Water

350

Salt

10

Liquid levain

100

Total

960

 

Method

  1. Mix the levain by dissolving the liquid starter in the water, then add the flours and mix well. Ferment at room temperature, covered tightly, until the surface is bubbly and wrinkled. (8-12 hours)

  2. Dissolve the levain in the water, add the flours and mix to a shaggy mass. Cover and autolyse for 30 minutes.

  3. Add the salt and mix to incorporate.

  4. Transfer to a clean, lightly oiled bowl and cover tightly.

  5. Bulk ferment for 3-4 hours with stretch and folds in the bowl every 30 minutes for the first 2 hours, then a stretch and fold on the board after 2.5 hours. The dough should have expanded by about 50% and be full of small bubbles.

  6. Refrigerate the dough for 18-24 hours.

  7. Take the dough out of the refrigerator and transfer it to a lightly floured board.

  8. Divide the dough into 4 equal pieces and pre-shape as logs or round.

  9. Cover the pieces and allow them to rest for 60 minutes.

  10. Shape as baguettes and proof for 45 minutes, covered.

  11. Pre-heat the oven to 500ºF with a baking stone and steaming apparatus in place.

  12. Transfer the baguettes to your peel. Turn down the oven to 480ºF. Score the loaves and load them onto your baking stone.

  13. Bake with steam for 10 minutes, then remove your steaming apparatus and continue to bake for another 10-12 minutes. (Note: After 10 minutes, I switched my oven to convection bake and turned the temperature down to 455ºF.)

  14. Remove the loaves to a cooling rack, and cool for at least 30 minutes before serving.

 

 

When tasted about 2 hours after baking, the crust was crunchy and the crumb was soft. The flavor was complex, with a caramelized nuttiness from the crust and a sweet, wheaty flavor from the crumb. There was some mild acidity but no discernible acetic acid tanginess. These are among the best-flavored sourdough baguettes I have ever tasted. Very yummy fresh baked and with great sandwich, crostini, toast and French toast potential.

David

Submitted to YeastSpotting

Simply perfect...directions, crust and crumb. I wish the fan on my Miele ovens could be turned off..alas...it runs even on conventional bake. I have continued to make only DO boules due to this. I think I may try the tiles in the roaster trick with a can of water. Short baguettes might fit as it is a huge roaster. Will have to post if I succeed. Will use your lovely formula. c

My oven is a gem, no question. We lucked out in choosing it.

I'm betting that you could bake fine baguettes in a large, covered oval roaster. FYI, mine are about 14 inches long. My only concern would be getting the crust crisp enough in that the high sides of the roaster might keep the imediate environment too humid during the second half of the bake. I wonder if you could transfer the loaves to a stone after the first 10 minutes in a covered roaster.

Happy baking! Do let us know how this works, if you try it.

David

David,

Whoa...love that crust color; wish I could get that kind of color and finish from my gas oven. What model oven are you currently using? I'm considering switching to an electric oven and am looking for suggestions.

Thanks,

Eric

My oven is an electric KitchenAid convection oven. It is 17 years old, so I'm sure the model has been superceded by a newer version. I have no experience with gas ovens, but, from what I hear, they present quite a challenge to bread bakers because they don't hold steam as well due to their venting.

David

David:  These look great, I’m taking a swing at them and plan to bake tomorrow. When you drop temp to 455 on convection, are you setting oven at 480 and having the oven drop the temp to 455?

My oven automatically drops the temperature 25 degrees from whatever I set the temp. So if I set it at 480 work on convection, the oven drops it to 455. If I set to 455, the oven would drop the temp to 430.

 

Kind of an odd function. In bake mode, the temperature stays at the temperature which I set it. 

Thanks

The temperatures specified are the actual temperatures. The oven I had didn't mess with my settings. I dropped the temperature manually when I switch to convection bake. I now have a new oven. When I turn on a convection function (bake, broil or roast), it politely asks if I would like it to adjust the temperature downward by 25ºF. I politely decline the offer.

If you don't have the option of choosing human versus machine control of the temperature, just set it to yield the ACTUAL temperature you desire.

Happy baking.

David

Mmmm.. i don't know why i haven't tried your SJSD yet, David.. i guess the idea of having to feed the starter with a specific flour mixture intimidates me, but it shouldn't.

Very inspiring, David.. thanks.

The crust , scoring , and crumb.. oh the crumb! all look perfect.

This is my standard starter feeding mix. It would be a bit of a hassle to construct it for every feeding. I keep a one liter jar full of this mix to use as needed. Generally, I mix 280g AP + 80g WW + 40g rye at a time. I use this for my stock, refrigerated starter too - 50g ripe levain + 100g water + 200g flour mix. It has become a routine.

I can't see you intimidated by this, Khalid. ;-)

David

Mixed, shaped and baked to perfection, no doubt about it! Just look at that crust, those lightly charred spots on the ears and the wonderfully open crumb. If you ask me, baguette is the hardest thing to pull off successfully. And yours are spectacular.

You may have noted that I baked the baguettes at 480 dF, whereas I bake my SJSD bâtards at 460 dF. That was expressly to get this darker crust with a 20-22 minute bake. It makes for a crunchy crust with a much better flavor.

Thanks for your kind words.

David

From those pics and your description, would love to tear into one of those! I don't do baguettes, so will have to content myself with San Joaquin batards - but that ain't bad!

Cheers!
Ross

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Wingnut on 2 Apr 2013 at 07:53

Solid, proper Baguettes! You are a better man than I for waiting 2 hours to taste, I give myself 30 minutes tops!

Cheers,

Wingnut

Those look beautiful and I can taste the nutty wheat flavor just from looking at them.  One question for you...what temperature is the water you are adding?  Are you using ice water or just room temperature?

Ying a run for her money David!  When we make white bread we make San Joaquin or  your Pugliese.  Now we have to try it out as a baguette.  These are just beautiful in every way.

  Very nice baking indeed.

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SylviaH on 2 Apr 2013 at 11:25

Superb, San Joaquin Baguettes!  They look very delicous.  Next go, save a pinch for a pizzett : ) 

Happy Easter,

Sylvia

 

 

Funny you should mention "a pizzett." Up to the last minute, I went back and forth whether to make baguettes or pizzas with the dough. I even got out potato pizza recipes and bought the potatoes. 

David

One more question...are you using your proofer for the bulk ferment before refrigerating and after taking it out to come to room temperature?  If so what temp. are you using?

You basic technique is very similar to what I use, but I only let the dough bulk ferment after the initial mix for about 2 hours.

Thanks.

Ian

I bulk ferment at room temperature. The longer time helps flavor development, and the additional S&F's help strengthen the gluten. At least that's my reasoning.

I bulk ferment in a glass container, and I like to see the dough full of nice little gas bubbles before I refrigerate it. 

David

That's what I was doing until I started using my proofer.  I am finding that the warmer proof at 80 degrees seems to add some additional volume to the dough but I have not tried one with and without yet to see the difference.

Thanks.
Ian

...you say, thus I definitely must make these. As a matter of fact, I was wondering today what to bake next, and not having terrible success on my baguette quest, I must try these. They look absolutely perfect!

The dough is rather sticky. Just keep your hands and the board lightly floured and use a light, quick touch when shaping. Don't forget to slash very shallowly for the best results. 

Let us know how your baguettes turn out.

Happy baking!

David

I remember Mark (Sinclair's Bakery) said that he measures the water temperature in order to get to the desired number.  I can't remember what is the temperature he is aiming, but it seems it does contribute to the dough development. 

Always enjoy reading your post, David.  The colour, the crumb and scoring are superb!  Did you use regular flour or bread flour?  The flour I use is advertised as unbleached white with 14% protein.  However, I learned from the TFL that it is better to use lower protein flour for baguette.

Michelle

To achieve a standardized, predictible production schedule, dough temprature precision is important. For the SJSD, a long, cool fermentation gives the best flavor, so I use cool water and mix by hand.

I use an AP flour with 11.5% protein. Your flour would qualify as "high-gluten" and is suitable for bagels, high percentage rye breads and highly enriched breads. You would get a chewy but not a crisp crust on baguettes made with your flour.

David

I always use water at room temperature (between 63-67F), so I guess it is considered consistent from a home baker perspective :)

Thanks for the tip.  What I have been struggling with is the open crumb.  I have no problem achieving crispy crust but the crumb isn't open enough.  I think my shaping and scoring techniques are ok, so I thought  maybe it has something to do with the flour.

Michelle

 

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Yippee on 3 Apr 2013 at 21:37

David:

You are the (baguette) man!

Yippee

Impressive David! Those are beautiful baugettes. I can literally taste them through the screen - well not really but it was worth a try.  Anis has got to be taking lessons...,

Wild-Yeast

Certainly I will try making baguettes again, but sandwich loaves baked in pans with oatmeal, buttermilk, and other embellishments to hide in are looking mighty good.

I must have overproofed this dough because there was no "oven spring" at all.  The dough was very sticky.  The flavor of the crumb in the flat little loaves was not bad at all.....but the crust texture was almost leathery.   

My plan is to step back to a yeasted, simpler baguette and build a bit of confidence before tackling this wonderful sourdough baguette.

Thank you for posting the recipe.    embth

 

 

 

I'm sorry you experienced frustration with this recipe. Baguettes are a challenge, and this dough is sticky. It is really important to achieve good gluten development with the stretch and folds during bulk fermentation and to shape quickly and gently but firmly.

I think your plan to work on your technique with "simpler baguettes" is a good one, but I hope you come back to this recipe once you are ready. It really makes good baguettes.

David

I made your SJSD several times, in different versions, always very happy with the results. Now you present a baguette version, and such a stunning one. Obviously another must-bake!

Karin

 

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kevinnoe on 29 Apr 2013 at 06:05

These are JUST GORGEOUS!

 

I don't believe I've every been asked that particular questions before.

Hmmmm ... Well, the San Joaquin Sourdough baguette is probably not the best first sourdough, unless you already have experience with 1) baguette shaping and 2) sticky doughs. If so, have at it. Otherwise, a lower hydration bread in an easier shape - boule, bâtard or pan loaf would be easier. Of my own breads, I would recommend the San Francisco-style Sourdough as a pretty easy and straight-forward first sourdough. I do mix it with a stand mixer. If you don't have one, you could certainly make it with hand-mixing and stretch and folds. 

See My San Francisco Sourdough Quest, Take 4 for the formula.

Good luck! Let us know how it turns out.

David

I got a chance to make this recipe last week, and it makes a really good-tasting loaf. I made it up on Wednesday hoping to bake on Thursday, but that slipped to Friday, and ... I finally baked on Sunday. So the dough got a four-day refrigerated ferment. Whether that hindered or improved the taste, I can't say.

My daughter, just back from a year in France and a fan of good bread, actually complimented me on the taste. So I got that going for me... :^)

Oh, and I only made a half-recipe. That worked fine. I was really patient with the dough after removing it from the fridge, and let it sit on the counter in my cool house (68-70 dF) for a good long time -- probably 2-3 hours. I've found if I allow plenty of time to allow refrigerated dough to come up to temperature, I get better loaves.

Anyway, thanks for the formula, David!

jaywillie

WHAT TYPE OVEN DO YOU USE FOR YOUR BAKING?  --- I HAVE RECENTLY PURCHASED A VOLLRATH CAYENNE OVEN --- I NEED SOME ELECTRICAL AND PLUMBING WORK BEFORE IT WILL BECOME USABLE --- IT IS CAPABLE OF 570 F AND HAS A MANUAL STEAM INJECTION CAPABILITY AND A FAIRLY LARGE CAPACITY --- DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABUT THIS OVEN? --- I AM LOOKING TO MAKING YOUR BAGUETTES AND MANY OTHER RECIPES --- THANKS FOR YOUR HELP --

 

SLKIRK

WHAT TYPE OVEN DO YOU USE FOR YOUR BAKING?  --- I HAVE RECENTLY PURCHASED A VOLLRATH CAYENNE OVEN --- I NEED SOME ELECTRICAL AND PLUMBING WORK BEFORE IT WILL BECOME USABLE --- IT IS CAPABLE OF 570 F AND HAS A MANUAL STEAM INJECTION CAPABILITY AND A FAIRLY LARGE CAPACITY --- DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABUT THIS OVEN? --- I AM LOOKING TO MAKING YOUR BAGUETTES AND MANY OTHER RECIPES --- THANKS FOR YOUR HELP --

 

SLKIRK

My oven is nowhere near as fancy as the one you are buying! I know nothing about it. Mine is an in-wall KitchenAid convection oven.

When you get your oven going, please let us know how you like it.

BTW, writing messages using all capital letters in online messages is called "shouting." It is used for single words or very brief phrases occasionally for emphasis. Otherwise, it is regarded as rude. Please find the Caps Lock key on your computer keyboard, and turn it OFF.

Thanks.

David

DAVID,

I HAVE HEARD THE RULES ABOUT CAPS BEING SHOUTING ---- I KNOW WHERE THE CAPS KEY IS --- I HAVE NO INTENTION TO BE SHOUTING --- I LIKE READING ALL CAPS AND WILL CONTINUE TO USE THEM --- NO DISRESPECT INTENDED --- I HOPE YOU WILL UNDERSTAND MY CHOICES --- I HOPE YOU WILL CONTINUE TO RESPOND TO MY QUESTIONS AS I RESPECT YOU AND HAVE FOUND YOU RECIPES AND SUGGESTIONS VERY HELPFUL --- I USED THE OVEN FOR THE FIRST TIME TODAY AND SO FAR I AM VERY HAPPY WITH IT --- IT HAS A MANUAL STEAM INJECTION BUTTON --- PUSH BUTTON AND YOU GET STEAM ---- THERE ARE ALMOST NO INSTRUCTIONS WITH THE OVEN AND SO I DO NOT KNOW HOW MANY TIMES TO PUSH  ---THE BUTTON (SUGGESTED TIME IS 2 SEC. PER PUSH) --- I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO MAKING THESE BAGUETTES IN IT SOON ---

 

TONYK

DAVID,

I RECENTLY MADE THESE BAGUETTES AND GOT RAVE REVIEWS FROM FAMILY AND FRIENDS --- I RECENTLY GOT A VOLLRATH CONVECTION STEAM OVEN AND REALLY LIKE IT SO FAR --- IN THE ABOVE YOU CALL FOR TEM MINUTES OF STEAM --- AS MY OVEN IS A MANUAL STEAM TYPE --- HOW WOULD I USE THE CORRECT AMOUNT OF STEAM TO MATCH YOUR TIMING --- THE RECOMMENDED STEAM INJECTION IS A TWO SEC. BURST PER SHOT ---- HOW OFTEN AND FOR HOW LONG --- I KNOW I WILL HAVE TO EXPERIMENT BUT COULD YOU SUGGEST A STARTING POINT --- AS ALWAYS, THANKS YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP ---

 

SKLIRK

you will have to experiment, but the manufacturor's recommendation is certainly the best place to start, imo.

Forgot to press the start button on my timer for the post-steam part of the bake, so they are a half shade darker than intended.  Still have some work to do on improvements.  One step at a time.  But I am pretty happy with the results.

Thanks for the inspiration...

Alan

A bit disappointed that the crumb on the portion that I cut into wasn't a little more open.  I pre-shaped and rolled these a little tighter than my typical, so I wonder if that had an effect.  My kitchen is running about 77-78 this time of year (So. FL so what does one expect!), so what I proof tends to prove a little faster than, for example, in Portland.

The flavor was delicious, quite delicate.  My wife is more a fan of the sweet baguette flavor, more along the lines of the Bouabsa taste, so I'll have to alternate bakes.  Gee, what a penalty to have to endure!

alan

A little over dramatic on my response to the crumb.  It is fine, as you can see.  It's just that my expectations are always high, thanks to me and you-know-who.  Keeps me striving...

I think that's a pretty nice crumb. You know, how vigorously to degas and how tightly to shape varies from bread to bread.  Maybe from batch of dough to batch of dough.

My SJSD baguette crumb has become increasing open over time. This was certainly not a conscious, planned modification of technique. It just happened unconsciously.  I imagine this is a common experience among bakers.

David

hummed to the tune of "It's Getting Better All The Time".  I like to work something until I can be consistent bake after bake.  I'm discussing this affliction with my shrink ;-) .  I figure that I'll be ready to move on by 2016 or so...

This time I decided to go back to a three baguette bake instead of the four demi-baguettes, although the formula and TDW remained the same.  I also adhered to dabrownman's dictum of placing water for steam into my lava rock pan when the oven is first turned on so that the oven is already steamed by the time the baking surface has heated up (~45 minutes).  I follow that by pouring very hot water into the pan just after loading the baguettes.

Although my levain starter is mature at this point, it still doesn't display the tang notes that I am after.  It is still too "soft" although it is certainly potent enough to provide an appropriate rise and prove.  I queried dbm on his 3 stage build, and he provided a beautiful detailed report on his philosophy and methodology, which I plan on employing the next time that I refresh my starter.  http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/287377#comment-287377

I love the results of this bake although I'd like the crumb to be more open (familiar cry?).  I'm trying to find the right balance between a tight baguette with sufficient surface tension vs. a softer touch where the scoring seems to be poorer but the crumb is perhaps a tad more open.  The journey continues...

alan

Terrific scoring!

The crumb is showing progress, I think. Most would be very happy with it as is, you know.

David

Thank you David for this well composed and thorough recipe. It has been so long since I've tasted a baguette like this. After leaving Toronto to move back to rural Ontario the quality breads I'd come accustomed to in my student days have long surpassed near memory.The texture, aroma, appearance and philosophy of baking. Well done, a thorough piece.

Hi breadesky,

When you say smaller sizes, do you mean that your baguettes are smaller?  I vary my bag bakes between 3 or 4 bags with the same amount of total dough.  The length of my bags is generally about 14"- 15" due to the limitations of my oven depth and the baking deck.  The girth of them is dependent on whether I get 3 or 4 out of a bake as well as the consistency of the oven spring.

Being a relatively new home baker I would venture that the crumb should be consistent in the openness regardless of the baguette size.

I will try to remember, but it may also be good to get the input of the OP as well.

Hi,

I'm making this bread right now and doing the bulk fermentation. I've S&F in the bowl for 2 hours alr and now it's resting, but what worries me is that the dough doesn't seem to rise an inch. The instruction said that the dough should somewhat be at 50% at the end of fermentation but I see no trace of it at all. Is this because of starter (although I assume it is not the case since I've been feeding it regularly for 2 months with good rise and pretty bubbles all the time)? Or is it the flour for i'm using local one? Should sourdough be rising this slow? Thanks.

Trang

Your dough  rising an inch doesn't mean much to me. The dough should increase in total bulk by about 50% before you retard it. In my kitchen, at around 70 dF and with the dough in a 2 qt batter pitcher, this equates to an increase volume. of 50%, but I've never measured the height. If you think about it, you will realize the rise in height depends on the shape of the container. Moreover, the time it takes to achieve the desired state of fermentation depends highly on the ambient temperature. For me, it generally takes 2 1/2 to 4 hours. If your kitchen is cooler than 68 dF, it may take an hour or so longer. If it's 75dF or warmer, it may be faster. I do folds every 30 minutes, usually 4 times.

Realize that the S&F process also degasses the dough somewhat.

The pitcher I use is glass, and I use the appearance of small gas bubbles throughout the dough to judge fermentation as much as the increase in volume.

I'm not at all sure you have a problem. If the dough is increasing in strength and it feels pillowy/gasses - like a partly inflated balloon - when you pat the surface, it is probably ready to retard. I don't know any objective way to measure this. You need to get a feel of how the dough should feel by experience.

Good luck with your bake. Let us know how it turns out. 

David

Hello Trang,

Dave Snyder is the resident master of this formula, but I'll take a shot at it. 

A few notes:

  • I follow Dave's 70 AP / 20 WW / 10 Rye /100 Water / 40 Stiff levain starter percentages for the levain starter, although I'm not yet comfortable with a 50% stiff starter, mine hovers somewhere around 60%.
  • After 30 minutes autolyse and hand mixing (pinch and folds), I do 300 French Folds to start the gluten development.
  • my kitchen is a bit warmer than the average kitchen, therefore I do 5 sets of S&F letter folds at 25 minute intervals and then it goes into the refrigerator.  Total bulk fermentation time therefore is ~125 minutes before refrigeration.  I never see the bubbles that Dave refers to, but I do see the change in volume.
  • I do all S&F's on the bench rather than in the tub. 
  • I use nothing but Gold Medal or Pillsbury "best"  brand unbleached AP flour (if you do not know, in the US these are about as plain vanilla as can be).   So a special flour may work better, but I'm happy with the results as is.

Below are some visuals which I hope help you.

1. This is the first S&F on the bench (again, they all are), at 25 minutes after French Folds complete.

2. Continuing my first set of side to side folds...I will then do a letter fold from "top" to "bottom", and then another letter fold side to side again, the final kinda having to roll it .  I'll do this for all sets of S&F's but as the dough ferments, the final (5th and 6th) letter folds (within the S&F) are difficult or impossible due to the rise.

 

3. This is what the dough looks like at the end of the first S&F.  It is already silken and still very extensible and has a sheen.  Note on pictures - these first three are actually pictures of Dave's Gosselin/Bouabsa SJSD dough.  It is a slightly bigger mix than the pure SJSD dough.  But one can expect the dough to look and act the same as this.

 

4.  The SJSD after bulk fermentation in the tub.  This is 25% larger by weight than the standard SJSD formula weight, but should give you an idea of what to anticipate.  BTW, it's "boyfriend" just below is a Bouabsa style baguette dough after bulk fermentation has completed. 

 

 The rise was quite obvious, if for no other reason than because with each succeeding S&F , the dough was demonstrating its growth.

Best of luck seeing if this helps,

alan

Hi alfanso,

My dough after fermentation looks nothing like yours so i'm guessing i'm not doing the S&F enough. It has a shine but it's not stretching all the way up and still a bit tough to handle. the flours i'm using is only 9% protein so i tweaked a bit by omitting the ww flour all the way and adding 50g of Diamant rye flour (type 1150) instead (hoping it will compensate for the loss of protein). My kitchen too is a bit warmer than normal kitchen, definitely over 75dF. It was a bit late over here so i gave up and retarded my dough (even it was not fully developed) and went to sleep. I was wondering if I could continue the S&F after retarding and still get nice result. Thanks a million.

Trang

I'm not sure about continuing S&F's after a long retardation.  I would be suspect that you could disrupt the gluten structure and even more so, a post retardation S&F could act as a punch down and deflate the dough without intending to do so.

As far as the S&Fs, in general, you don't need to handle with "kid gloves" (as opposed to a ciabatta dough for example, where you do!) and too much over-care.  That is not necessary IMO.  But you also do not want to manhandle the dough.  Maybe treat the dough as if you were caressing a puppy - just to give you an idea.  In those two pictures of the first S&F, the dough virtually extended on its own.  Just about zero effort.  However, with each subsequent S&F there is more resistance as the dough rises and the gluten strengthens.  And definitely do not retard the puppy overnight!!!  Just the dough ;-) .  

With 9% protein, I'd think that the extensibility of the dough would be overt, just the reverse of what you're reporting.  That may be a case of over development of the gluten and it is too elastic and springing back?

Aside from the enjoyment of hand mixing, my understanding is that it is virtually impossible to over mix the dough.  You don't say whether you are using a mechanical mixer or not.  And if so, then how.

And most importantly, have patience.  Expect to have a few failures, the key being to try to analyze what went wrong and correct that one thing to see what the next run looks like and what the change is that you effected.  It gets frustrating at times, like now, but that is a part of the journey.  Don't worry, though.  Once you figure this out, something else will come up from behind to bite you!

 

 

I was impatient to wait for your reply so I wrestled with the dough for another hour or so. Boy i was silly.

After letting it rest for 30 min, it turned into a big bowl of levain. Big. Bowl. Of. Levain. :-(

Please have a look:

This surely is a failed attempt. However I'd love to know what have caused the dough structure to become somewhat a mix bag like this. I can't even decide whether it was under or over done. I mean with insufficient development and early retard, the dough should've been more tough (right?) but instead it became sour and liquid-y, like a SD starter. I don't really get it. 

 

And how am i going to save this one? Extract some of it to make another batch? Thank you.

Trang

When I was just starting to learn how to home bake, I understood neither the autolyse nor the process, and there was no TFL for guidance.  (quick history - I home baked for a ~ year back in 2003, then worked part-time in a bakery for a few, then nothing for > 5 years until the end of last summer again.)
  
So I'd mix flour & water, manhandle the $#!+ out of it and when it was too "dry", I'd add more water and then continue to wrestle with it.  Then it was too wet, so I'd add more flour.  And so on.  Until the thing was a monster taking on a life (or death is more accurate) of it's own.  And then I'd stare it down, as if that would help anything, and sometimes leave the mess on the kitchen counter to "show-off" to my wife when she came home.  I also didn't understand the punch down concept, and if you can't guess the rest, I'd literally punch down the dough!  So you can see where my efforts were taking me.  Which was to Nowheresville.  Until I bought the BBA and it was still close to rank amateur.  Okay, enough with the horror story to scare the wits out of the little children ;-) .

The point here being that failure is part of the success (boy, if that doesn't sound backward!).  But it is important to know when to take the dang thang and just toss it into the refuse bin, and start again.  Which I was initially slow to learn.  One shouldn't have to "fight" with the dough, nor knead it for a half hour.  That's first hand experience talking.  In reality, the minute you get to that stage, there is something already wrong that is probably uncorrectable.  Maybe the lesson to take away from this attempt is to understand when to give up and throw in the towel and try again.  As unsatisfying as that may be, considering that you just spent the past x amount of time on it.

Quick history, part II.  I am not a skilled home baker yet and still learning the ropes.  I'm usually better at execution than at problem analysis.  At the bakery, where I was a fill in and adjunct, I had the true pros around to figure out what I was doing wrong to help me "self" correct.  And that was now a number of years ago.  So I am still sometimes left scratching my head when something goes wrong after I followed all of the steps.  I can hardly figure out my own issues, no less diagnose someone else's on the internet.

Okay, next part.  And this doesn't necessarily pertain to you since I don't know you nor your baking background.  So this is nothing personal, just my general observation while lurking around on this website for the past few months.  What I sometimes see is that folks get themselves in over their heads trying sophisticated things prior to "mastering" the basics.  Some of the calls for help on the website indicate as much.  And rather than getting down the foundation and spending adequate time analyzing and understanding the simpler aspects of the world of baking, they are understandably impatient to get to step 8 before getting steps 3-7 down.
  
I've been led to believe that the baguette skill set, however simple it may look, is actually one of the harder ones to get down.  Which is part of why I like doing them pretty much exclusively.  It will take me until just short of doomsday to feel like I've mastered that skill.  Okay, now add to that the world of levain and starters and myriad ways to get it right - and wrong.

In summary, I hope the above acts as both a guide as well as a pep talk of sorts.  I'll leave the more sophisticated on-line analysis to the guys who have been doing it a lot longer, and better, than me.

Good luck, toss it out and try it again.
alan

Bread making is a long path and mistakes indeed are unavoidable. We all at some point  stare hopelessly at a fail dough but at the end of the day, we all learn something regardless how small it is. Thank you again for your encouragement and inspirational stories. I am going to carry on my practice until I achieve better understanding of the basics and of course moving on to other advanced ones. Good luck to you too with your delicious breads! :-D

Trang

P.S I definitely going to make SJSB again next time and post the result.

Hello David,

As I continue to switch between commercial yeasted bags and levain bags, the outcomes have also been improving.  Sometimes two steps forward, one step back, but overall in the right direction.  Below are two recent SJSD bakes.

For the more recent bake, yesterday, I decided to divide the dough into three instead of four (the rebel in me!), shape a bit longer and score four across the length of the baguette instead of my typical three scores.  I also tried the Sylvia boiling towel steaming method in addition to the lava rocks.  I'll stick with that to see if over time there is a consistent difference in the outcome.  So far the book is still out.    A few tweaks here and there, but basically sticking to plan when I make these.  So far, I'm happy with what emerges from the oven.  But until I can approach your scoring skills, I consider that I still have a lot of work to do...

The second has that "rustic" look because the baguette surface was still a bit tacky as it was being transferred from couche to peel, so I floured them to avoid tearing the skin.  Not by choice, rather by a bit of necessity.

 

Lucca was such a wonderful place, although we were there 12 years ago now.  I hope that you had a  chance to spend some time in Viareggio.  We have acquaintances in Massarosa / Piano di Conca who insisted on hosting us at two wonderful restaurants on consecutive nights.  We hope that you had equally wonderful experiences.

alan

We really liked Lucca. Among the Cinque Terre, we went to Manarola twice. We did not visit Coniglia nor Viareggio. We ate very well indeed.

David

Vic,

You have been asking the same question, more or less, for four years. Please, get a bread baking book and read the section of developing a sourdough starter. I suggest one of Peter Reinhart's books or Jeffrey Hamelman. Or, search TFL for "The Pineapple Juice Solution."

Where are you now? In the past, you have had a rye sour. Have you kept it active? Or are you starting again from scratch?

David

If you are going to be making baguettes frequently, a transfer peel would be good to have. I made a video demo on their use, FYI. See Flipping Board (Transfer Peel) Demonstration

You can buy on from The SFI for about $15. You can make your own, as I did, from a relatively thin wood slat of some sort.

The issue is, you want the baguettes as straight as possible as the bake.  When you use a flipping board, this is easier to achieve. In any case, on the peel, before you slide them into the oven, is your last chance. Even professionals who use a "loader" to get their loaves into the oven will straighten them out, as needed, on the loader. The transfer peel is also used as a loaf straightener for this operation.

David

I am so looking forward to the day, in a few months, when my dominant right hand will be out the splint and physical therapy is finished so that I can try this very bread.   I would have put off this reconstruction surgery forever, but the bread lover in me needs to knead!  I need to make this to feed my soul as well as my belly.  It is so perfect!

I have a natural starter that are over 2 years old. I bake farmer's bread weekly using my covered clouche, but would like to learn to make baguettes. Can I use 1/2 cup of my starter (after feeding) added straight to the 350 gm of water to start the bread?

YG

You could do that, and it would make bread. However, not knowing how you mix your starter, what flours you use, at what hydration you keep it, how much 1/2 cup weighs, I can't say whether the resulting bread could be similar to the SJ SD baguettes or not. 

David

I will give your receipe a try. So question - AP = All Purpose, and WW = Whole Wheat? Will let you know of the outcome.

Thanks again.

Hi David, Thank you very much for a wonderful receipe. I spend my 2 weeks of Christmas holiday baking away, and it is the best vacation I have had for a very long time. Burn a few (in my wood burning oven). created a few "mutants", but all and all, it is slowly but surely getting better. Still not as nice as your pics (but taste wonderful!). I believe if I keep at it (at least once a week), one day, I will create something as beautiful as those in the pic (may take me a few years..).

Thank you again!

It sounds like you are making great progress. I am sure you will continue to improve with regular baking. I am happy you are enjoying the San Joaquin Sourdough Baguettes, and I appreciate you letting me know!

Happy baking!

David

Hi!

I've been baking bread for 2 months.  I've tried to make baguettes now 4 times, using this recipe and another one from this site; the other resulted in totally flat bread, while I've been successful both times with his one.  Very "holey" baguettes that match my taste preferences.

Having problems shaping  Have watched multiple videos on youtube, including Ciril Hitz, and whatever I could find.  Preshaping is fine, but when I get to rolling, one of two things happens: 1) dough sticks and squishes, 2) dough just slides and won't roll.  The latter occurs if I lightly flour the counter.  Have tried so far on two different counters, one is some sort of plastic counter, other is granite.

Instead, I end up gently lifting the preshaped tube up, and stretching it using my hands and gravity.  This results in a rather.. undulating waveform of a baguette, instead of a uniform roll. 

How do I overcome the sliding?

Thank you for both the recipe, instruction, and your time reading.

Here was my first attempt.  Crust could be darker, but crumb and taste were fantastic.

Your crumb does look, fantastic!

I don't have experience with the work surfaces you mention. I work on a wooden board. You could try that.

Your loafs roll when you dust the board because the flour is "lubricating" the surface. Try dusting but even more lightly. The "secret" to shaping a wet, sticky dough like this is a very light touch - basically, no downward pressure on the dough - and very quick movements. Minimize the length of time your skin is in contact with the dough as you shape it.

If you are a new baker, you have started with the most difficult of breads to shape. But it will come with practice. The first 10,000 baguettes are the hardest. ;-) Keep at it. I think you are off to a great start.

David

Hi David: thank you for that!  Using back side of my wooden cutting board did the trick, and I had much more consistent, not-as-lopsided results - you are right, very hard, and need light hands, quick movements.  10,000 more, and they'll hopefully look more like yours :)  I had a roll-paux on the last attempt yesterday, as I was transferring to my peel after the final proof, one rolled right into two others, immediately fusing, which caused some malformed baguetard mutant.  Still tasted great, with wonderful crumb.  Need more practice, both shaping, and scoring.

Definitely something I will do more often, so I'll cut myself a little transfer peel when I get home from the holidays, it's just too easy to mess up all that hard work. 

Thanks once again for the recipe and help!

I'm glad the wooden surface helped. It sure sounds like you are making progress.

Here's a photo of one of my "baguette mutants:"

It missed the baking stone. It's fall was broken by the oven rack below, where it remained for the duration of the bake. I have a small collection of photos of other unintentionally creatively shaped loaves.

Happy baking!

David

 Amen.  If you haven't had mutants, you haven't been baking long enough.  Generally speaking, my guess is that the majority of contributors on TFL love to exhibit their poster children on the website (I do!), while hiding away their shameful little mutants in some dark recesses.  But I'd bet dollars to donuts that we've all been there.  Join the club...

alan

hi david 

i just finished  the bulk fermant stage and refrigerate the dough

my question is do i need to degas the dough after taking out from refrigerator and making the pre-shape or do i need to keep the gas and bubbles and just  work gently with the dough while pre shape and shape

thanks in advance

Degas gently. In general, I degas sourdough breads much more gently than yeasted breads. Basically, I just want to pop any very large bubbles.

Hope that helps.

David

so i made it and it was beautiful and tasty

next time  i would like to get bigger bubbles like you :) 

 

you can look at the final result 

i would like to hear what do you think about it- so i can improve next time ( but i am very happy for first time) 

http://www.siz.co.il/my.php?i=tnnjnyyadwmo.jpg

http://www.siz.co.il/my.php?i=idyy0tvozy2y.jpg

http://www.siz.co.il/my.php?i=yqktzntxg2xg.jpg

Hi, yossihaz1.

Your baguettes look good. But they look very different from mine in several respects - really like a different bread.

I don't know how much is due to baking in those pans. Probably the pale sides could be because of that. Did you score the loaves?

David

yes

 i scored the loaves. the loaves had many bubbles so it was hard to score the dough ( it lost his height lil bit)

i proofed after final shaping 45 minutes- what can be the problem?

I think you have more than one problem. I suspect you are degassing to much when you shape the loaves. Also, if you are scoring and the loaf is deflating, that is a sign of over-proofing. The lack of bloom suggests over-proofing too.

Note that the 45 minute final proof assumes an ambient temperature of 20 to 23 dC. If your kitchen is a lot warmer, the proof time will be excessive.

A possible third problem is how you are scoring. I suggest you look at the following pages:

Scoring Bread: An updated tutorial

Scoring Bread made with high-hydration dough

David

Ive made sourdough bagettes before and found them a little too chewy, next to my memory of french bread in France. Very tasty and nice inside, good crust flavour, but without the same crunchiness. Id like to try yours :) Very tempting...

A very clever fellow (Oscar Wilde) famously said, "I can resist everything but temptation."

San Joaquin Sourdough Baguettes are always "in stock" at my house. They freeze and thaw beautifully and fast, so they serve well in bread emergencies. Very yummy. Do try them, and let us know what you think!

David

My family loves your recipe and I make it regularly when I can.  I know it freezes well, can it be frozen thawed and refrozen multiple times? I have done a fundraiser for my kids church camps and I don't generally sell out, so I was wondering if it can be frozen over and over...maybe a few times?

I have never re-frozen SJSD. I wouldn't recommend it, but why don't you try it, if you want to. With left-over SJSD baguette, I usually make bread crumbs or croutons. The bread crumbs we use for a New England-style garlic bread crumb topping for baked white fish, for fish cakes and for a vegetarian pasta sauce that is delicious, when you can get great cherry tomatoes. The croutons are either cubes for salad or slices for soups. 

There are many other ways to use "day old" bread. Those are our favorites.

David