Hi, I have the KitchenAid artisan, it's a small home kitchen sized stand mixer. I usually knead by hand with stretch and fold, but I would like to start using this machine to save time.
I have tried to use it several times with the dough hook, but it just doesn't seem to mix right (I was making a 70% hydration lean french dough each time). I do not get gluten development, it looks like what I'd have with 1-2 minutes of hand kneading even after 3,5,10 minutes. It's just not doing the trick, and I'm totally clueless as to what I am doing wrong. I'm mixing it on the slowest speed.
When I watch it, it's almost like the top of the dough ball is just turning around and the bottom is stuck, I don't see much stretching or pulling in the mixing action.
When I use the KA for one loaf of bread at 800 g or so, I usually hook it at 2 minutes on 2. Scape it down and do another 4 minutes on 3. Then rest about 10 minutes and still do half the S&F's I normally would in half the time because the KA is not so good at making bread and developing gluten so no decent holes.
I think it works OK.
I use a KA Artisan to knead low and hi hydration successfully, with good gluten development.
Some tips:
You may want to read txfarmer's posts about windowpane. Once I read that and ran my own tests, I learned that if you want good gluten development in a KA, you need to run it at fairly high speed for a much longer time that you'd expect.
For a 75% hydration ciabatta in the small (4.5 qt) KA my standard batch was 1400g mixed at speed #4 for 5 min 15 sec (this will vary depending on your flour - I was using high gluten).
With the hook there isn't enough dough contact to create the shear you need. A larger batch size helps a little but their guidance to not exceed 5 min on speed #2 with the hook is nonsense. And the little mixer can handle the heat better than the 600 does. Higher speed also means more efficient motor operation and better cooling because the fan moves air in proportion to the square of the shaft speed.
The paddle gets involved with the dough better and at high hydration levels the dough is still liquid enough to behave well. At 70% you might want to switch back to the hook at some point after the dough has pulled off the side of the bowl, but run it at a speed that picks the dough up. Too slow and it will do exactly as you describe.
Yes, mostly, although salt definitely has an effect on gluten development, so I wouldn't skip the salt.
to be honest, you might as well just make some "real dough" :) all you're missing is a tiny bit of yeast.
I use my KA Artisan all the time and get very good gluten development. The key is running it for a long time (around 10 min at speed #4), or at speed #2, probably 2x as long.
Just don't overload it (either too much normal dough, or too much stiff or sticky dough) and it works well.
For larger capacity and your price range, I would also consider the Assistent or Bosch Universal.
While it has its limits, the smaller KA is (IMHO) a far better machine than the larger 600Pro (and I have both, though I use my Assistent N28 for almost everything).
How long should I run a hobart n50 for, and in speed 1 or 2? considering speed 2 is like 4 or 5 on a kitchenaid, and 1 is like, well, i assume speed 1 on a ka. I think i am struggling with gluten development in this thing as well when compared to when i do by hand.
Hamelman says in "Bread" that for a planetary style mixer, 3 min on speed 1 and 6.5-7.5 min on speed 2 should achieve moderate dough development. "Moderate" here means that you follow up with a few stretch and folds to finish development to the desired level, so that it damages your dough less.
I say start at 3 min on speed 1, then 3 min on speed 2. Then check the dough, see if it was good enough. Let it go at speed 2 for 30-60 seconds, then check again. Repeat until you have the dough development you want. Keep careful track of the time, so you'll know for the future. (and so you can share with us here! :)
If you really overknead, supposedly your dough will break down and become watery again. Although as this thread indicates, overkneading in a stand mixer may be practically very difficult to do.
I have read that f you completely over knead a dough, it will fall apart, but I have never had that happen to me. It does getter stickier the more you knead it. Also, it rises in temperature the more it is knead which will make if feel stickier even if the hydration hasn't changed . If it gets too warm and begins to look more like batter, you can put it into the refrig for a short time, and go back to kneading it in the mixer and it should do better.
I've long had trouble getting good gluten in my Accolade (similar to the Artisan) until recently... these were the two biggest breakthroughs:
1) Allow the dough to autolyse for 20 minutes before mixing (just mix flour/water until combined - do not fully knead yet and add yeast/salt after)
2) Mix bread dough on Speed 3 (not 2) for about 8-10 minutes.
So, for a basic 2 lb loaf, the recipe is:
- 20 oz flour
- 13 oz water
(mix together until just combined, rest 20-30 min)
- 2.5 tsp year
- 1 tsp salt
- 2-3 tbsp honey (optional)
- 2-3 tbsp butter (optional)
(add above, mix on speed 3 for 8-10 minutes, rise 1 hour, shape and rise in pan for 1 hour, bake at 350 F for 35 minutes)