September 6, 2023 - 4:17pm
Help with levain and sourdough rise
Hello all.
Could someone give me a ratio for a 12-hour levain? I would like to prepare it at night and then in the morning mix it into the flour and water.
I prepared a 1:1:1 ratio last night and it picked somewhere in the middle of the night. I went ahead and used it in the recipe I had and it came ok, but I was hoping for a bigger rise.
Could this be the result of using a levain pass peak? Or do you think it's a different issue?
One thing I did do incorrectly was I pulled the risen, shapped dough out of the banneton and sat it on the counter for about 15 minutes while the oven heated up. (As opposed to heating up the oven beforehand and popping it right in out of the banneton).
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Around a 5% - 7% innoculation should do it. That is, if you use say 100g flour in the levain, then use 5 - 7g of active starter along with the water. But instead of a levain, you could just ferment all the flour in the same 12 hours (for a bulk ferment time of 12 hours), using the same percentage innoculation.
I'm assuming a fermenting temperature of about 72 - 75° F, and 2% salt.
I threw out that number pretty casually, but it's in line with my standard starter and room conditions. Things may differ for yours.
Tom...
Ahhhhh... So basically just mix up the dough (starter flour water), and let it bulk ferment overnight??? It would basically do the same thing?
Could you explain a little bit to me about the autolyse step? Is that step even necessary?
Thanks again.
So basically just mix up the dough (starter flour water), and let it bulk ferment overnight???
Just so, Here's how I often do it. Of course, it will depend on your schedule, recipe, room temperature, starter, etc., but it works well for me.
In the evening, mix the dough - all the flour, starter, water, etc - make sure there is no dry flour and no dry clumps - and let it sit covered for half an hour or longer. Then knead and stretch for a few minutes, put the dough into an oiled bowl or tub, and let it sit covered until it's time for the first stretch-and-fold.
Finish the S&Fs before you go to bed. The next morning, either the bulk fermentation will be done or it will be ready in a few hours depending on the starter, dough, room temperature, etc. Form your loaves, then proof and bake.
If you don't have time to do the work in the morning, then put the bulk-fermented dough in the refrigerator and continue when you do have time.
Could you explain a little bit to me about the autolyse step? Is that step even necessary?
It's not strictly needed, and the term can mean different things to different people. Basically you mix the dough briefly and then let it rest for some time. Half an hour seems to be good though even 15 minutes is useful. During this time the flour hydrates (soaks up the water) and gluten starts to form. After the rest, you will find the dough is much easier to work with and only a few minutes of simple kneading and stretching will put it into good shape. Knowing that you plan to do a series of stretch-and-folds over the next few hours, you don't have to work hard to develop a "window pane" or do any other hard work on the dough. So why spend time and effort working on the dough when time and Mother Nature will do the work for you?
Some people will also say to leave out the salt, or the salt and starter (or yeast) until the end of the rest period. They write that the salt will "tighten up" the dough. If you leave out the salt when you mix the dough, you will find the dough to feel softer and easier to mix. It will be more extensible. Don't forget to add the salt after the rest! As to whether it's also better to withhold the yeast or starter until after the rest, I don't have much to say. I didn't for years, and got good results.
This is my 14 hour levain. Never misses :)
levain.jpg
Thanks so much, Gavin.
What if I was to use all-purpose flour? What changes would you suggest making to the water?
Have you ever used about a week gluten in all purpose flour to make it bread flour and what results did you get? I have a lot of both on hand.
Thanks again!
AP flour would be ok. I'm in Australia - so maybe our flour names are different. The flour I use is 11.5% protein and is ideal for sourdough. Our "Baker's" and "Bread Flour" don't have any added wheat gluten. My flour of choice for my everyday sourdough is Laucke Wallaby Baker's flour.
My levain build is 125% hydration but you could reduce that if you want.
Cheers,
Gavin
What temperature is your house? Was the inoculation in the fridge?
1:1:1 will normally overferment in 12 hours. That is my guess for what happened to you here.
At 75F to go 12h you might try closer to 1:10. A stiff starter is also a lot more forgiving.
J,
I keep my starter starter in the basement where the temperature is about 76-78 (no a/c there at the time.)
Is inoculation the same as rising? So could it inoculate in the fridge? How long would that take? But it won't fully rise in the fridge, right?
Thanks!
Innoculation means the starter you use with ("inject" into) some dough or levain.
Thanks so much everyone.
More testing on the way! I am having so much fun.
Yesterday I made sourdough buckwheat pancakes which were some of the best pancakes I've ever had (someone on here recommended the buckwheat - sorry I can't remember who - and it was a wonderful addition!)
Yesterday I made sourdough buckwheat pancakes which were some of the best pancakes I've ever had.
I believe that was my suggestion. Wonderful, aren't they!
TomP
You know, I thought it was you, Tom!!! Super yummy.
Glad you liked them. I made a large batch of them once and froze most of them. Pop them frozen into a toaster and out they come in a few minutes, still delicious.
Sorry! There terms are so vague. By inoculation i just meant the seed you start with. The first “1” in your “1:1:1” (ratio by weight of seed starter: flour: water). At 76-78F 1:1:1 will overproof in 12 hours. Thats your problem.