Not sure if it's overproofed...
In between 2 bakes experimenting with Anita's AP flour, I was able to squeeze in another SD bake using La Milanaise sifted #50 (equivalent T110, high extraction flour that has some bran sifted out, but still retains much of the germ and so will act more like a whole grain flour), flour that I had not used for a very long time! I had forgotten how tricky it was to bake with and ended up with those 2 very disappointing freesbees...
I would tend to say they are over proofed, but would love to have confirmation from you as I'm not even sure...
Given that I have 2 bags of 20 kg of that flour, I am going to have plenty of opportunities for trial and errors!!!
Thanks in advance for any feedback!
100% La Milanaise Sifted flour #50
69% hydration
10% levain inoculation
2.2% salt
Levain built overnight at RT - Ratio 1:5:3.5 - Starter is 2 years old-ish, seems to be active (I keep it on the dry side; it is kept in the fridge during the week and is fed with 100% Whole rye)
Fermentolyse in the morning for 1 h
Dough kneaded 8mn with Ankarsrum mixer, Speed level 3
2 Coil folds done in the first 2 hours of bulk
Pre-shaping after 7h50 of BF at 27C in a proofing box / rest 10mn at RT / Proofing 1h35 at 27C / Fridge overnight
Total fermentation time = 9h35 at 27C
Baked in preheated DO at 220C for 40mn with 2 ice cubes + 15mn without lid + 5mn out of DO
They do look pretty solid, Gaelle. To me it looks like a low protein flour, perhaps coursely ground? You might be better blending it with some strong white roller milled bread flour.
Lance
Interesting! I just checked on their website, and the protein content is supposed to be 11.6%, which is rather low indeed...
So low protein + high extraction..How am I supposed to handle that now??? No clue ....
Any suggestions would be most welcome!!
Thank you Lance for pointing this out to me!
As I said before, I think a blend is your best bet, or possibly add some VWG.
BTW, can you get a windowpane after mixing?
Also consider doing a wet gluten test to confirm flour strength.
eg: https://www.instagram.com/p/CT4nE9qjPVM/
Lance
Yes, Lance, I usually have a beautiful windowpane after mixing.
I did a flour test a long while ago, but quite basic, not as thorough as Balazlo's (just mixing water and flour and rest for an hour, and see what happens...)
I know what I'll do tomorrow then! I have a new batch using 100% of this flour proofing in the fridge right now, ready to bake tomorrow morning, but I'll try some mixing for my next batch then.
Thanks again for your help, Lance, that is really appreciated!!
Gaelle, I do think there is a bit of over fermentation there. Again, I’d love to see higher resolution photos of the crumb but I think I see some broken gluten strands under the crust in particular in the loaf on the left where they show the crumb. I might shorten bulk a bit and see how that turns out next time. 69% hydration shouldn’t really be too high for that flour I wouldn’t think unless it is super humid where you are located but I could be wrong having never worked with it before.
Benny
I started a new batch yesterday, here it is, fresh out of the oven...At least today I have an ear! I shortened the bulk a bit, I think I am going to shorten it a bit more next time.
Thanks, Benny!
Well that is superb in my eyes, not sure what I’d change about that. What hydration did you go with and what were the bulk and final proof times and temperatures?
Benny
Pre-shaping 6h45 into bulk / rest 10 mn and shape / Proof 45 mn at 27C
Fridge overnight (16h)
Total fermentation time = 7h45 at 27C
Would you tweak anything ??
What was the hydration this time, increased too 80% or back down to 78%?
The 78/80% hydration is about the other post regarding my bread made of 86%Anita's AP / 7% whole spelt /7% whole wheat (I am starting a levain tonight to make another try tomorrow morning at 78% hydration)
Here, this is about a 100% Sifted flour bread. In my original post, the hydration is 69%: Pre-shaping after 7h50 of BF at 27C / rest 10mn at RT / Proofing 1h35 at 27C / Fridge overnight
Total fermentation time = 9h35 at 27C
In the next batch I posted earlier today, the hydration was hygher, 75%, and I pre-shaped 6h45 into bulk / rest 10 mn and shape / Proof 45mn at RT / Fridge overnight
Total fermentation time = 7h45 at 27C
I know this is confusing as you are helping me on both issues, the Anita's AP and this one, the high extraction flour!! Thank you again, Benny, it's is so helpful!!
OK yes I was very confused, but I think I have it straight now. So this improved significantly by shortening the fermentation which now looks excellent to my eyes. The hydration change certainly didn’t worsen the structure. If the dough felt like it could take a bit more water without becoming too loose, you could inch up the hydration by 1-2%. I don’t tend to make big changes to hydration because it is easy to overshoot and have a pancake. I’d prefer a low hydration loaf with good ovenspring to a slightly overhydrated pancake.
Benny
As well as inching up the hydration by 1%, I'll also try to lower the amount of flour to see if that might help
I'll keep you posted :-)
2% more hydration / 900g flour for the 2 loaves instead of 1000g / 20mn less fermentation than previous bake
Pre-shape 6h into bulk / rest 10 mn and shape / Proof 1h at 27C / Fridge overnight
Total fermentation time at 27C = 7h30
Results: crumb a bit more moist than usual, very shy ear, no change in oven spring...
Always easier when only one variable is changed at a time, however, I don’t think it is over fermented, I’d back down on the hydration and keep the total fermentation times (bulk and final proof) and see what they gives you. The La Milanaise Flours don’t seem very strong to me. In fact I like their all purpose because they are a bit on the weaker side so they are great for baguettes.
Unfortunately I'm going back to work on Monday, so my baking is going to slow down drastically....Back to weekend baking only, I'm afraid!
I'll keep you posted; thanks again Benny, thanks to your advice I think I have a much better idea in what direction I should be going with this very tricky flour
Yes I think you’ve now seen the results of each of the changes you’ve made each time. Don’t work too hard, we’ll look forward to your next bake whenever that is.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
Benny