June 21, 2022 - 8:09pm
When to use starter
Everything online says to use the starter after it is fed and rises to its peak - float in water test. But I've found I get a lot more bulk rise if I use it before feeding and/or after it has fallen.
To me it makes sense to use a starter that is hungry so it reacts with the new flower in dough, not the other way around.
I decided to do a test of each side by side. In the end, other than one showing more bulk rise, I couldnt tell the difference. Same finish, bubbles, crumb and taste.
How am I misunderstanding the science and is it just possible that I have a very active starter and it just doesn't matter?
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Have a starter/levain build it's more about balancing flavour and getting everyone on the same page. Everyone has a different starter so introducing a build brings everyone's starter in-line. A freshly fed starter will have a different flavour profile too and not everyone keeps a lot of starter. If you use too much starter that hasn't been fed recently you'll have a lot of "spent" flour resulting in a poorer gluten network. I think you'll find come what may yeasts are always hungry and will eat whatever is put in front of them. They never 'say' they're too full and they couldn't eat any more. As long as there is food they'll eat through it.
Thanks. Makes a lot of sence, especially keeping and eye out for too much spent flour. Still dont get why they just dont say use a starter that has been fed recently instead of the silly floating in water test.
At least I got one response before the thread got hijacked by refrigerator questions. How is that even a question, our starter is regularly in the fridge and we proof in the fridge too.
Stanley Ginsberg in The Rye Baker does say its OK to use his 100% hydration rye sour culture starter that has been refreshed in the last 36 hours and that's worked for me. I'm sure I've used starter when its past peak. I've also never done the float test and I'm not sure it would always be the most reliable method.
There are also some recipes for "Do Nothing" sourdoughs that use unfed starters. King Arthur has some and Hamelman's 3rd edition has at least one. The levain build and maybe the proof will take longer, but it could fit with some baker's schedules.
I'm sorry about contributing to the thread hijack.
There will always be variables, be it different flours used and temperatures, however a recipe needs to be as accurate as possible for consistent results.
Everything in a recipe is done to minimise failure. If recipes were inconsistent people wouldn't follow them. However that doesn't mean it's the only way for success. If you have refreshed your starter within three days and it's the same hydration and flour then by all means it can work although you might get a different flavour. However this recipe is being followed by very many people and for that a more specific build is needed.
Float test is useless IMO, just ignore that. If you see that the starter has grown (e.g. doubled or more), no need to test the floating. As discussed above, it's also no necessary for the dough to rise.
Also, float test won't really work with a rye starter, it doesn't keep its structure and doesn't retain gas in the same way.
If its active its good enough to use.
I’m about to begin again, and am a little worried this time around. I just received my Hamelman Bread book and am reading about starters. I’d had plans of storing the tiny bit in the fridge (eventually) but he mentions that temps below 46 your starter could spoil!? My fridge temp is around 37, which is what’s recommended. I certainly don’t want that to happen.
I have a 100% hydration whole rye starter that I store in the fridge. I also abuse it by only feeding it about every two weeks. It's been really abused these last couple of months while recovering from shoulder surgery. I've only fed it twice in that time. It has continued to double in 12 hours at 26 °C upon feeding 1:10:10. I have not been able to use it in a bread, but I expect it will perform as usual.
Part of the flora of the culture being destroyed at lower temps. I’d never heard this before, hence my new worries.
I don't doubt that the flora of Hamelman's room temperature starter is different than a refrigerated starter. But I also didn't feel like being a slave to my starter with daily feeding. I named my starter Vaal because it still needed to be fed for maintenance. If I was feeding daily, I really would have named it Audrey II. The daily feeding would not have been possible after surgery.
Hamelman is definitely an expert on bread baking, but I find that some of his advice doesn't always jive with my observations, like with internal temperature during baking. I also want my bread baking to be a more relaxed endeavor.
Not my experience. You can read about how I maintain my starter which lives in the fridge in this thread.
Benny
Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I’m all about zero waste and easy maintenance. I have zero interest, other than the initial creation of the starter, in daily feeds and discards. I’d like a rather mild mannered starter, meaning not overly sour, so I’d like a maintenance ritual that lends itself to creating nice all around breads.
In one week, when we return from vacation, I’ll once again start a starter. I was thinking of using the method in Hamelman’s Bread book.
I had starter that I'd fed with a combo of rye and AP 3 or 4 days prior. It's very vigorous and the day before yesterday I realized I was about to run out of bread...so i used the starter right from the fridge. Rose fine. Baked up fine.
I wouldn't use a 2 week old starter without giving it some food first (you COULD I just don't) but there is sometimes an overemphasis on catching a levain RIGHT at its peak as if being off that won't work. Yes, getting at its most active will certainly help, but it's just that - an advantage.
Thanks everyone. Weird I found so many references online saying you need to do the float test. Good to see so many dont think it matters which matches my experience. We've made dozens of loafs so far with the exact same step by step recipe. Very consistent and successful, feels foolproof. I will post it when I get some time.
I think the float test is most useful for people who are new to sourdough and don’t know what a “peaking” or “vigorous” or “healthy” starter or levain looks like. When made my first starter a few years ago, there weren’t a lot of pictures and videos online. I had no idea how a starter was supposed to behave. But because mine couldn’t pass the float test, I knew something wasn’t right. Once I got a healthy starter established, I stopped using the float test.