Sourdough
I am new to this forum and am excited. I have many questions.
Starter: I used T85 flour for my starter and maintain it using a 1:1:1 ratio. Now, I have not been tracking the rises nor quantifying it. I have just been feeding the starter everyday at the same time for the past month. Starting out, how much should my starter rise before replenishing it? Is consistency key here or handled day to day? My environment doesn't change too often.
Bake: my bakes have been frustrating because they come out looking dense. I'm not sure how to fix this issue.
I mix 1000g of T85 flour with 750g of water. Then I add 150g of my starter (waiting at least 4 hours after feeding it). I mix the dough by hand for 5 minutes and let it sit for half an hour. Then I fold the dough 4 to 5 times and let it sit 30 minutes. I repeat this process 2 more times. Then I let it bulk ferment for 3 hours. It doesn't rise as much as id like. Why is that? I take the dough and shape it and let it sit for another 30 minutes. Then, after my dutch over has been in the oven for 30 minutes at 500F, I place my dough inside cooking for about 25 minutes with the lid on and another 10 to 15 with the lid off.
I'm not sure why my dough is dense. Is it perhaps my starter or the recipe I'm using? How do you get a nice open structure?
I've attached photos of my starter and bake. The starter was fed about 4 hours ago.
Temperature of kitchen makes a big difference for fermentation and proofing time.
You can check power of starter by putting a mark or elastic band at the level when you feed it.
Personally I use dark rye in a clear glass container and it obviously expands a lot... looks like a sponge.
Your process seems odd to me.
A lot of time pre proofing... could cause overfermentation potentially depending on kitchen temps.
Your proofing time (post shaping) is only 1 hour? Seems very short esp if kitchen is not hot and you have a large boule.
Thanks for your feedback. This is very helpful. I have been considering a different recipe/process. I will start monitoring the starter in a jar. And interesting about rye. I'll look into that. I let the bread proof in the oven with the light on which gets pretty warm. I bought a thermometer to make sure the temp is right 80F
Recently read this as well on open crumb
https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/blog/2020/11/05/producing-an-open-crumb-in-sourdough-bread
If the pic shows the starter, it should be good enough.
Right off - the process (if the description is complete) doesn't allow much gluten to form. Probably your biggest issue.
I would only add in some kneading time. Real kneading, as in traditional hand or mixer kneading. At least in the beginning of the process.
Timing - if it didn't rise as much as wanted, why didn't ya let it go till it was where ya wanted? That's what should happen - in all the stages of the process. Enjoy!
I knead the dough by hand for only five minutes. Perhaps I'm not working the gluten enough.
Good point on the timing. I'll let it proof longer until it doubles and see what happens.
I would disregard all responses as they are based on insufficient, and changing, info. Enjoy!
Could you autolyst it with just flour and water for at least a couple of hours before adding SD and salt? I think the general rule of thumb is have a 2X rise in the dough before proceeding to the next stage so I would keep fermenting it until it has doubled which could take many hours if the yeast is not strong. Also, it might be easier to gauge the starter strength with a skinny tall jar instead of a wide bucket although an expert baker would know the ripeness of the starter regardless of the container. The same thing would apply to the dough as well to gauge its size. This is not an expert advice, it is just a passionate comment.
I do autolyst it for 30 minutes but I'll try an hour and see what happens. Yes I'm going to start measuring how much it doubles and see if that helps with the open structure.
Hi, Welcome to sourdough baking!
Do you see how your starter has started to subside? It left a high-water mark on the side, and there are dents in the surface. Bubbles have popped. Those are signs that the starter is past peak. You get the best performance when the starter has a bit of an arc, the bubbles haven't popped yet. Either use less "seed" starter or use your starter sooner, or put it in a cooler location (10 dF makes a difference).
Re doubling, that usually happens in proofing, but not always in bulk fermentation. It depends on the dough. Using a ripe but not over-ripe starter will help. You could also add a 4th fold and an extra 30 minutes bulk fermentation and see if that helps. 3 hours is typical but 3.5hrs could be right for your room temperature and process.
Proofing could easily take 3 hours. Try proofing longer, and use the "poke" test every 30 minutes. The poke test is where you gently press the dough with the flat of a fingertip. I wet my finger first. Press gently, to make a small indentation. Feel the resistance of the dough as you press. Watch it recover. It's ready when it feels almost puffy and there's just a small bounce-back from pressing. Experience is the best way to learn what the dough should feel like and how the dimple should respond.
T85 is about 90% extraction, so you have a lot of bran still in there - this is always going to make for quite a dense loaf.
Also you don't say if the T85 is stoneground or not; if it is, then that will also contribute to a low rise loaf.
Try doing a test bake using 40% of your T85 and 60% of good quality bread flour and see how it comes out.
It would be a good idea to fill in your public profile info, so we know where you are based. This will give us global TFLers an idea of what flours you have available in your neck of the woods and what sort of hydration you should be using with them.
Lance
Thanks so much for this. Yes the T85 is 12.5% protein and processing is roller milled, malted. The flour comes from Utah in the US.
Ill definitely fill in my profile :)
I'll try you recommendation and see if that helps.