Help with sourness
I’ve been working on my sourdough bread for a few months now and I’m pretty happy with it now, the crumb and ear is good but I can’t seem to develop any sour tang.
My last attempt was to add some whole wheat to see it that would do the trick but neither my wife nor I could taste if that helped at all.
My process was as follows:
90% 13.5% protein white flour
10% whole wheat flour
75% water
12.5% (of total weight) starter
2% salt
All proofing done at 82 deg.
Day before remove starter from the refrigerator and feed it 1:1:1.
Next day remove 25 g starter and feed it 1:2:2 to get 125 g. wait 5 hours till tripled in size.
Add most of water to starter then mix with flour.
Autolyze for 40 minutes.
Mix in salt and remaining water rest 20 minutes.
Turn dough every 20 minutes … 4 times.
Bulk ferment 5 ½ hr. (total) until dough almost doubled in size.
Preshape and rest 30 minutes.
Shape, place in banneton and retard in refrigerator overnight.
Next day place dough in a 450 deg. preheated combo cooker, score, spritz and bake 25/30.
What am I missing?
I’m thinking about proofing at 84 deg. Next time.
Any thoughts?
TNX.
Sometimes when I mention sourdough bread people respond with no I dont like sourdough bread.
Usally because the think sourdough bread has a very dense strong tasted flavor.
But that is is just one type of sourdough bread.
So does sourdough bread have to taste sour?
No it does not.
It depends on the rising time and temperature and also the kind of flour you use.
Rey four gives a more pronounced taste as wheat flour.
Rise to 2x, knead to degas, rise to 2x, knead to degas, shape, rise to 2x, bake. Use more starter to shorten times. Reduce water. No need for cold regarding. Enjoy!
I know what you mean.
When I first started playing around with "sour"dough, I had a specific taste profile in mind and I was finding it hard to achieve that profile. In highschool (graduated in 2000) I used to enjoy the sourdough bread bowls at Panera bread in Tulsa. Their bread bowls had a nice tart taste and I really enjoyed eating the bowl after polishing off my broccoli cheddar soup. I haven't eaten at Panera in about 10 years and my taste preferences have matured since then, so if the bread bowls taste terrible these days, don't sue me.
I was hoping my first rustic loaves would have the same sour flavor, but they did not. They had lots of complex flavor, but not very much sour flavor. I think sourdough is a misnomer, instead I think "wild risen breads" would be more correct, or something to that effect, because I am learning that that through various tweaks you can adjust the sour level, for example a lievito madre sourdough starter supposedly has no sourness to it.
I have since made some very tangy sourdough loaves. But, I haven't gotten all scientific about what it takes to make a super tangy loaf.
Tricks I know of to get more tang in your dough:
The way to cheat to get that tang:
EDIT:
Also, I think "Mini Oven" (a frequent poster on TFL), has a ton of scientific background on this exact topic. You might want to seek out her advice.
To get more tang, and lactic vs acetic: https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/62064/want-more-sour
https://truesourdough.com/best-temperature-for-proofing-sourdough-full-guide-how-to/
https://truesourdough.com/18-ways-to-make-sourdough-bread-more-or-less-sour/
I'm still needing some suggestions.
After reading the above links and searching the web I've done two more tries with the same results.
First I went back to my original 100% white flour recipe but proofed it at 84 deg with an over night retard. The only thing that changed was the times. The taste remained the same.
Next I changed my starter to contain 15% rye and used it with my 100% white flour recipe which I proofed at 82 deg. with an over night retard. Again no detectable sourness.
I do think that the overnight retard gives me a bit softer fluffier crumb but no change in taste.
Where do I go from here?
Any further thoughts?
I've made some very sour "loaves" by way overproofing the dough. The flavor was great but there were some serious drawbacks. The dough turns to goo due to proteolysis and is impossible to shape. As well, the rise is unsatisfactory. The result after baking is more like a crusty pancake, but the flavor is out of this world. By "way overproofed" we're talking 24 hours at about 86 F or warmer.
The principal souring agents in sourdough bread are lactic acid and acetic acid, so I don't know what adding citric acid accomplishes.
The erstwhile San Francisco sourdough bakeries turned out hundreds of loaves per day and they refreshed their stiff starters every 8 hours. It's not practical for an occasional baker like me to follow this refreshment schedule.