November 23, 2020 - 2:57pm
Idea: Massive Starter Plus Little Flour
Has anyone ever tried adding their warm water, starter (1:1 by weight), and only a portion of their flour, so that the total ratio of water: flour is still only 1:1 (same as starter) and once it becomes very active, add in the rest of their flour + salt?
It's basically making a huge starter and adding a small portion of flour to get the hydration you want. I'm thinking you would have exceptional rise and flavor (possibly too strong), but I would love to hear anyone's opinion or experience before trying. Thanks!
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1:2:3 recipe
100g starter + 200g water + 300g flour
100g starter (50g water + 50g flour) + 200g water = 50g flour + 250g water
To that you add 200g flour and allow that to mature and the final dough will be...
500g starter + 100g flour
Do-able I suppose. A good rule of a pre-ferment is keeping it 50% or under or risk the final dough being too weak so it'd have to be a young pre-ferment. Your way it's 500% for this recipe. An odd way of doing things but give it a try.
What do you gain from it? The amount of time you'd need to ferment the dough the normal way or prefermenting all that just to add an extra 100g is going to be minimal. You'd need to shape it straight away and what have you gained? Probably a weak over fermented dough if you over do the 'starter' or you haven't gained much.
It's not that far off from making the final dough but holding a little bit back, fermenting it and then adding in that bit extra. You wouldn't ferment it for longer when it's 500g starter to 100g flour. I'm not sure about this or why.
IMO it's the opposite. The amounted of fermented flour changes, not the hydration. In the end, it's still the same amount of water and flour. You're just allowing the fermentation to happen in the same ratio that it would for a starter. Once it's very bubbly, you add in the rest of the flour and salt, and the rest you'd do as normal.
And re-wrote my comment. Better when putting in some numbers.
Hi cookiecrumble,
I’ve tried this several times and had trouble with weak gluten structure unless I kept the preferment limited by low hydration and refrigeration (that time for the Ciabatta community bake). I suspect the protein was being broken down (proteolysis). For a liquid starter at high ratio, I’d recommend using it on the young side.
—Tom
This is known as a preferment, polish, biga, and many other names. Search for it for more info, lots more info. Enjoy!
I have been doing this with total 150g flour (including the 50g in the starter) in preferment overnight in cool house, then 400 more in main mix. Bulk ferment then cold proof. Works fine. i keep messing with the recipe and the process in various ways and that doesn't always work. But it's my home base.
Your way...
50g starter + 150g water + 150g flour
Then 400g more flour in the main dough
So that's 350g levain + 400g flour... Makes sense! Quite a normal procedure.
had this exam thought today! the replies are great and did a long deep dive in preferments.
*exact same thought
damn autocorrect.