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Spreadsheets and Seed Culture

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Spreadsheets and Seed Culture

My spreadsheet is setup according the BBGA standards, with the exception of the seed culture. Up until now it is handled as follows.

  • The seed is not listed in the total dough
  • The seed is listed in the levain (pre-ferment section) and is calculated as a percentage of the total flour in the levain.
  • The seed is not added up in the total weight of the levain.
  • The original seed is expected to be saved out of the total levain to perpetuate the starter.

The reason the seed is handled this way is because I am a stickler for accurate hydration. When the seed is calculated as an ingredient in the total dough, there is no accounting for the flour and water within the seed as it relates to the dough hydration.

Here is my spreadsheet. It may paint a better picture. Notice how the 33g of seed culture in cell G(37) is not totaled in the total levain weight in cell G(51)

Do you have a better way to calculate this, while taking into account the flour and water within the seed culture?

phaz's picture
phaz

Thus is how I look at it - it's either wet or dry - choose one and don't worry about it.

This is the Phazulator (right click and download - it's excel spread). The seed is dry and added as such, if there's a soaker as they call it, it's wet and also added as such. Everything is also calculated as such. Bakers math says a % of total flour, so that's what you get, but you have the option to add a % in a preferment, all is added to total weight as that's what a total weight is - the total weight of the project. Everything is changeable, and changing anything changes everything. To the right are cells you can use to track changes .

I remember kinda doing something with a spread with you a assume back (years maybe) but never got back to it - golf. Golf season is now done, I was bored, saw more posts on spreads and decided to whip this up. 20 minutes to do the math - 5 hrs cuz I didn't like the look and flow and kept changing things - can ya tell I was really bored

Enjoy! Oh - did I mention phone friendly

suave's picture
suave

I never treat the seed culture that way in my calculations.  Here's my reasoning.  Doing so implies that your levain has the same composition and hydration as you propagated starter.  More often then not this is not the case.  For example my starter is 100% and fed with a blended flour, my levains are rarely at 100% and never use the feeding blend. 

It also implies that the starter and levain do not exist simultaneously - all your starter goes into levain and does not exist until you take out a new seed.  This makes a ton of sense for baking on a scale, particularly in a bakery with a continuous cycle, as it allows to reduce waste and cut back on the number of containers.  At home, my feeling is, it is much safer and easier to branch out and build levain separately - posts that start with "Help!  I accidentally..." are a testament to that.

Finally, there's an issue of "precise hydration".  The way I see there are two ways to achieve that.  Either you run everything in one pot, without ever transferring enything from bowl to bowl, or you calculate everything with 5-10% safety margin to account for transfer losses.  First way is not always convenient - a 60% sponge will crust over if left for 12 hours in a 6L mixer bowl.  The second way is wasteful, and the calculation becomes too complicated.  So, my way of calculating things is to include starter in levain/total dough, and treat each subsequent stage not by weight but as all of it, with the understanding that there will be transfer losses and the hydration will be a tiny bit different from the calculated, as it will be in any case due to fermentation losses.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Sauve, please post a screen grab of your spreadsheet. I’d like to take a look.

suave's picture
suave

My Excel files are not in English.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

BreadStorm software (no longer in business) seems to handle the starter efficiently. My only issue is it requires two extra columns in the spreadsheet and I don’t have room, since the goal is to print the sheet on a single page.

I may place the columns off to the side and make it fit some sort of way.

phaz's picture
phaz

C'mon Dan, that's an easy one. I did it, I'm sure you can. Think "outside" the "box". Enjoy!

Isand66's picture
Isand66

I love my Breadstorm program, but alas they have turned into dust.  I just hope it continues to work as long as possible, but I'm sure at some point my operating system will prevent it from working.  I always have treated the flour and water in the seed as part of the overall formula to get an accurate picture of the hydration.