The Fresh Loaf

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5 months and still a disaster

EmilyinFrance's picture
EmilyinFrance

5 months and still a disaster

Please help me!

I started tackling sourdough 5 months ago after many years of baking chemical yeast bread. I bake on average 2 loaves per week. Generally I stick with three recipes on theperfectloaf.com (awesome website): the 50/50, Tartine #33, or all-purpose loaf. I obsessively read or watch videos about how to improve my bread and every time I think that I've finally figured out "my problem" I'm disappointed by the resulting loaf because the problem is still there (or a new one appears).

For a while I was making pretty descent loaves. They rose OK with an OK crumb and sometimes I even got ears. At the time I complained they weren't good enough. Now my loaves have devolved and they're like they were in the beginning: flat and dense with large holes. I'm at my wit's end about what direction to go because I thought I'd learned something about building strength, understanding how my starter works, etc. but it seems I've not learned anything at all.

In general I figured out that my starter is very fast. I can build a levain over night only if I put the levain outside in my garage (it's probably 10 degrees out there). Even in the fridge I have to feed my starter every 3 days. At room temp my starter is ripe within 4 hours. Generally I've stopped doing a cold ferment of my dough overnight as I thought it was over proofing so I've been doing a 7-hour cold ferment during they day and baking at night.

My loaf yesterday turned out flat, dense, with large holes. It was the 50/50 loaf from theperfectloaf. I had realised I had not been building enough strength into the dough so did slap/fold on the dough for 4 minutes initially. Then another set of slap/fold an hour later, and then stretch and folds every half hour for about 4 hours. When I shaped it for the cold ferment I thought it felt good and strong. After 7 hours in the fridge I took it out to bake. The dough had gotten a bit stuck to the towel despite flouring (this often happens to me..I don't understand why). As basically always happens, when I dumped the dough onto my baking pan it was flat and nothing like the pictures/videos I see of a dough that holds its structure. I don't understand why when I shape the loaf it feels good but after the ferment it's useless. Where am I going wrong?

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Hi Emily,
I think most of us, from time to time, have experience some of the frustration you described. I have a suggestion that you may want to try. Some time back we had a Community Bake that featured Kristen’s (FullProofBaking) Basic Open Crumb Sourdough. I suggest this particular bread because bakers achieved astounding results and the instructions are so well laid out with a YouTube video. If you choose to try that bread, be sure to post your bake(s) along with images so we can help. Many bakers monitor that post and will be happy to help.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/61572/community-bake-featuring-kristen-fullproofbaking

 

BXMurphy's picture
BXMurphy

Thanks for the link! Very informative.

Murph

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Murph, our Community Bakes(CB) are always open to new participants. Even though the older ones may not be currently active, many bakers continue to monitor them. Bakers are able to start a post in any CB and receive help.

Here is a list of past Community Bakes
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/61187/list-past-and-present-community-bakes

Danny

BXMurphy's picture
BXMurphy

Dan,

Community Bakes are the best idea ever for newbies and a challenge for experienced bakers! Wow! (Who thought of that?)

Much obliged for your link to them all!!

I haven't baked sourdough for four years. I am building a new starter from scratch.

I have an old starter in the fridge that has never been opened for four years until just recently. Didn't smell or look bad. I wanted to revive it to see what happens.

Somebody said that bad organisms in old starter wouldn't kill you because they die in the oven but... the toxins that they produce don't die in the oven and that those toxins could cause harm.

And you say...?

Murph

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Surely if you feed it a few times anything gets diluted out. Nothing kills you in homeopathic dilutions.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Ilya is a molecular Biologist. We can probably trust his opinion :-)

I’d try to restore it. Let us know what happens. Maybe you can become the first record holder.p for the oldest restored starter. If you are able to revive it, let me know and I’ll start a dedicated post for the oldest revived starter.

If you have any whole grain, give it a try. Otherwise feed it white flour. I think I’d initially feed 2 parts starter + 1 part water + 1 part flour. If the starter is crusty and/or funky, pick out the good stuff and use that. If you have enough starter, you could also try feed 1 part starter + 2 parts water + 2 parts flour as an experiment.

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Without more information on the procedure we can't be sure he didn't just create a new starter though, using organic ancient grains must be nutritious an rich with yeast and bacteria. Not sure what they mean by "Blackley sterilized his contraband" - that would kill the yeast/bacteria...

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Ilya, do both wild yeast and LAB sporify, or just wild yeast?

Does commercial dry yeast (IDY, ADY) sporify?

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Saccharomices cerevisiae forms spores. I would assume their relatives who are also found in starters would do the same.

I think Lactobacilli don't.

But I'm not a microbiologist.

texas_loafer's picture
texas_loafer

Lactic acid producing bacteria of the genera Bacillus and Sporolactobacillus form spores

But I'm not a microbiologist.either

mwilson's picture
mwilson

The words you're looking for are "sporulate" and "sporulation".

Ilya is correct btw. We were taught briefly about ascospores during my oenology course.

BXMurphy's picture
BXMurphy

Awright... I'm going to try refreshing it. Thanks to Dan and Ilya for the encouragement.

What could possibly go wrong?

For the original poster: You seem to describe an exhausted/starved yeast. Are you sure you had enough food for the yeast to feed on before and during baking?

Murph