Looking For Things to Work On For Flavor, Sour, Tang, Etc.
Hi All,
Noob poster here.I try different recipes, and get bland, not flavorful and not sour bread. Salting correctly. I use digital scale. I retard all my loaves.
Question: what areas should I focus on getting correct, or doing carefully, in order to get any flavor and particularly that sour flavor?
I am retarding loaves in the back of my fridge, according to time specified in recipe. I just checked the temp of my starter, which I keep back there, and it's 36 degrees. Does a 36 degree retard temperature inhibit the bacteria that produce the sour flavor?
I have not been religious about using my starter at a particular point in its cycle. I will use it when it has doubled or tripled, but not waiting for it to come to a stop. Do I need to pay more attention to where the starter is in its cycle before I use the starter?
I have tried a few times to use a high proofing temperature of 85 degrees. This did not make a sour loaf, but it did make bread that made the roof of my mouth and tongue feel like I had been eating a lot of sour/acidic candy--sort of irritated the tissues, if you will. But no sour flavor.
I am making loaves that are not underproofed, they have plenty of oven spring with no fool's crumb, pretty even crumb density. I always put my loaves in the fridge.
Thanks for any directions you can send me in! Love this site.
To get more tang, and lactic vs acetic, read the comments by Debra Wink on this thread:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/14913/very-liquid-sourdough
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Further reading elsewhere:
https://truesourdough.com/best-temperature-for-proofing-sourdough-full-guide-how-to/
The following is probably the simplest, without the detailed science:
https://truesourdough.com/18-ways-to-make-sourdough-bread-more-or-less-sour/
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http://brodandtaylor.com/make-sourdough-more-or-less-sour-part-2/
1 - sounds like you already have sour
2 - any temp outside of the optional will inhibit activity - hot or cold, just a matter of how much - more extreme more inhibition
3 - yes and no - it would be more important to be consistent in when it's used
PS - different types of flours have different types of flavors (maybe that's what you're looking for in flavor) - experiment - see what ya like. Enjoy!
Using a part dark rye will give you a nice flavor.
About 15% gives a nice flavor.
Thanks for input all. I made the Vermont Sourdough thanks to reading the link posted above. This recipe has rye and a 125% starter. While not at all super sour, it definitely had a sour flavor. Finally! So I guess I will continue in that area, exploring and learning.
All above are great advice. For more flavor start experimenting with higher % s of whole grain flours. Try 10-30% of rye, spelt or wholewheat or a combination of them. Also try including some whole grains in your levain as well. My method is to do a bulk overnight fermentation and not of the shaped loaves. I would try that as well and see if you develop more flavor.
sour milk, yogurt, or other liquids other than plain water?
additions of vinegar, pickle juice, or wine, beer, lemon juice?
roasted flour? Fresh flour? Nut flours? Ground baked bread crusts? Toasted grains? Toasted rolled oats or malts?
adding salt to a starter and when very mature, make fry bread in a frying pan?
Do you smoke?
If you can't taste anything, consider getting tested?
Thanks for these further suggestions. I can definitely taste stuff, but its all coming from the crust. There's no sour or sour tang in what I'm making, and the crumb itself totally flavorless.
So I got some sour in a Vermont Sourdough loaf and I did another one today. The first one I cold-retarded for 12 hours. Today I did one and let it proof too long before putting it in the fridge and decided I should cook it with only about four hours in the fridge.
This one came out without much sour at all. So next one I will do an overnight retard. See how that goes. Debra Bowman said she found the Vermont Sourdough without a retard too sour for her taste, so I think I ought to be getting some sour without a retard. Oh well.
build a little sour after being baked. Try tasting everyday as the loaf ages. Can be your favourite sour starts at 3 day old bread.
Try also making a sauerkraut sourdough starter from raw (not canned or pasteurized) sauerkraut. Its a slightly different bacteria and it can easily make a sour tasting bread. Or just add sauerkraut and juice to your recipe? You might follow instructions for a raw cabbage starter if no raw sauerkraut is available. (It takes longer, sk is practically instant) Check with a healthfood store or farmer's market in the refrigerated dept.
Wow pretty inventive and innovative approaches to thisproblem. If i can't get the Vermont Sourdough going consistently with the sour note desired I guess I'll try your things next!
When do you eat the bread, within a couple of hours of being baked? I find the sour flavour is more noticeable the next day.
I guess over the first to third day. Haven't noticed anything getting more sour but will pay attention on next loaf.
Try overnight ferment at room temps (@70F), but you'll have to play with starter amounts to keep from going over (not they it really hurts much, just gets more sour). Enjoy!