The Fresh Loaf

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Starter rise time proportional to bulk fermentation time?

Marble's picture
Marble

Starter rise time proportional to bulk fermentation time?

I am struggling with FWSY overnight country brown but determined to get it right! Due to very high humidity (and my skill level) I have reduced the hydration to 70% but the proportion of levain to flour is still ~108g to 440g flour. 

I was concerned that I might have a proteolytic starter so have been feeding it 1:5:5 every 12 hours and it reliably doubles in 12h. Since that ratio is very roughly what the proportion of levain to flour (Actually I guess my dough ratio is 1:4 levain to flour) in my recipe would I be able to expect a doubling in ~12h or less at the same ambient conditions? Or is the hydration and size of the ferment too different from the starter to use it to predict?

 

this is my dough at 7.5h fermentation. Yawn...off to set an alarm clock for every hour until I figure this out

trancer's picture
trancer

I tend not to compare the rise time of the Starter with the fermentation time of the bread, just because there are too many variables to control for (e.g. Salt qty, hydration of the dough, flour makeup of the dough, proportion of starter, ambient temperature, whether or not i've Autolysed).

Where you say your starter was proteoytic, have you tasted it when it was at it's peak, was it quite acidic?  If you're getting at least double the rise of the starter and you're using the starter at peak, then that's a good thing.

What is the outcome of the recent loaves you've baked that makes you think you're not getting them right?  It might be helpful for us to diagnose if you have crumb pictures, methodology details and dough temps (at each stage).

 

Marble's picture
Marble

I think I just thought that a proteolytic starter could have been the problem because I was getting very gloopy and unmanageable dough after bulk fermentation. I had been under feeding the starter earlier and thought this might be the problem because even at BF times of 4-6h I was getting gloop. I had also read on this site that Forkish’s BF times were way too long and assumed mine was too. After baking some yeast breads I have made many times and realizing I had to add more flour to make the dough manageable, I realized the effect of the high humidity in this area (and my lack of experience with higher hydration) and tried decreasing the water in this bake with good results so far. 

The first pic is my first Overnight Country Brown with a 12-15h BF (I wasn’t keeping track well so not sure how long but I followed the recipe). Looking back, the crumb looks great but I lacked any shaping skills.

the subsequent pics are crumbs with shorter BF times thinking I had overproofed. Looking back it’s obvious I have been under proofing. I had not been using a see through bowl so was judging based on looking at the top. 

 

Marble's picture
Marble

FYI, I finally stopped the BF at 11h (4am!) and shaped then proofed for 4h (it probably could have gone in the oven at 3.5h but I wasn’t sure at the time). The final bake looks great. Haven’t cut it open yet though. 

trancer's picture
trancer

That Looks nice!  I think your assessment on the other loaves is on point.

Marble's picture
Marble

Thank you! And thank you for reminding me that the salt probably has a retarding effect on fermentation. I totally forgot to account for that.

Now that I am more sure that this recipe is close to a 12h BF for me I can actually plan for an overnight fermentation and not have to wake up to check on it!

trancer's picture
trancer

That looks lovely.  Well done.

 

Just be ready to adjust Bulk Fermentation time according to the temperature of the dough. What's the temperature that you're fermenting the dough in? 

Marble's picture
Marble

The ambient temperature was 25C (77F) for the first 4h then 23C (73F) for the rest. The last dough temp at midnight was 75F. I think as the autumn gets colder I’ll have to start using a proofing box to raise the temperature and can start increasing the hydration as my house rarely goes about 35% in the winter even with the humidifier whereas in the summer it is easily 50-60% with the AC on.