Somewhat over-proofed?
I'd love some opinions assessing the crumb of my most recent bake, the butterfly pea flower sourdough.
Total Dough Weight 900 g
Butterfly pea flowers 14.5 g dried flowers, green leaves and stems plucked off. Steeped in 360 g boiling water x 10 mins and cooled, then 342.5 g added to flour during autolyse.
Bread flour 80%
Whole Grain 20%
Prefermented flour 9% 45.5 g
Bread flour 380 g
Whole Grain flour 78 g
Water 76% 342.5 g
Salt 2% 10.1 g
Diastatic malt 0.5% 2.5 g
Levain 91 g
Levain build 1:2:2
20 g mature starter
20 g bread flour
20 g whole grain flour
40 g water
1. Liquid Levain (0:00) --- I build mine at around 1:2:2 and let it sit at about 80°F until it more than triples in volume and “peaks”. For my starter, this takes approximately 5-6 hours.
Flour for my starter feeds is composed of a mix of 10% rye, 90% bread flour
bulk fermentation 74*F is the goal
2. Autolyse (+3:00) --- This is a pre-soak of the flour and water. If concerned about the hydration hold back some of the water. You can add it back later, if necessary. Leave the autolyse for anywhere from 2-4 hours (I prefer 3 hours) while the levain finishes fermenting.
3. Add Levain (+6:00) --- Spread on top of dough and work in using your hands. This is a good time to evaluate the feel (hydration) of the dough.
4. Add Salt (+6:30) --- Place salt on top of dough and work in with hands. Dough will start to strengthen.
5. Light Fold (+7:00) --- With dough on a slightly wet bench do a Letter Fold from both ways. NOTE: If baking more than one loaf, divide the dough before folding.
6. Lamination (+7:30) --- Place dough on wet counter and spread out into a large rectangle. Do a Letter Fold both ways.
7. Coil Fold (+8:15) --- Do a 4 way Stretch and Fold (Coil Fold) inside the BF container.
8. Coil Fold (+9:00) --- Do a 4 way Stretch and Fold (Coil Fold) inside the BF container.
9. Coil Fold (+9:15) --- Do a 4 way Stretch and Fold (Coil Fold) inside the BF container.
10. End of BF - Shaping (~11:30) --- The duration of the BF is a judgement call. Shoot for 50-60% rise (assuming my fridge temp is set very low). Warmer fridge (above 39F) means your dough will continue to rise... so in this case, bulk to more like 40%. Divide and shape
11. Retard Overnight & Bake --- Score cold and bake in a pre-heated 500F oven for 20 minutes with steam
12. Vent Oven 20 minutes into the bake --- Vent oven and bake for 20 or more minutes at 450F.
I usually check the temperature of the dough but didn't for some stupid reason and didn't notice until very late in the bulk that my dough was running warm around 76*F, which is warmer than I was intending.
The butterfly pea flower really makes this dough far more extensible than usual, something that Kirsten mentions in her post.
What do you think of the crumb, I think it is somewhat over-proofed do you agree/disagree?
Looks fantastic.
What is butterfly pea flower?
Is that wat gives it the color?
Butterfly pea flowers are dried flowers that are quite blue purple and a tea is made with it that is used to hydrate the flours etc.
Cool idea.
We have a vegan junkfoodbar in The Netherlands the have blue or pink bread.
Blue bread with pink carlic saus.
https://www.veganjunkfoodbar.com
I can't say that it was my idea, I got the idea from Kirsten of Full Proof Baking.
Benny
Maybe but wel executed.
Wow, what a beautiful color! Overall, it looks like a great loaf. How does it taste?
As to your question about over-proofing, I would actually guess that it is more likely under-proofed. The crumb being closed in places with large holes throughout is more consistent with under-proofing, imo. However, it is not severely so. The post made just prior to yours that was fermented for 2 days in the fridge looks like what I expect from over-proofed dough. The crumb is evenly distributed small holes and didn't get very good rise. Your bread has great rise and some larger holes, but a more closed crumb outside of that.
Usually I would fully agree, but lately I’ve been reading on the forums other evaluations of crumb. I thought that I’d read that with the dense crumb but with larger holes throughout, including near the bottom crust might be indicative of over-proofing. I thought I had it figured out reading the crumb with respect to over or under proofing but now I feel quite uncertain unless it is super over or super under.
Thanks for you input Somaek.
Benny
what a pretty loaf. i thought it was taro. or blue potato. What does lamination mean? I thought it was for croissants.
Thanks loaflove. Lamination is a technique I learned here and on YouTube. Have a look for Full Proof Baking on YouTube, she is an expert who uses lamination to build strength and extensibility in dough.
Essentially you stretch your dough out into a really big rectangle on your counter until it is really thin. Then you do letterfolds to get it back into a block of dough. Anyhow, once I started using lamination I have found my doughs have had better structure. Building structure was something that I struggled with when I first started making sourdough bread, well it wasn’t the only thing I struggled with, but that is another story.
It may be slightly overproved, but the question I feel is relevant is, was it a good bread?
Constantly fretting over achieving exact 100% proof, not 95% or 105%, is stressful! Baking should not be stressful. It's a beautiful loaf and it does not look overproved at the expense of structural stability or quality of texture, so there is no reason to stress :)
Thanks Amara. Yes the bread turned out to be decent sourdough, and you’re right, I should fret a bit less. But I want to learn from each bake and hopefully improve each time. This is why I wanted to know what others thought about the level of bulk fermentation of this bread based on the crumb. When I first took the lid off during baking and saw the modest oven spring, I thought, oops must have over proofed. Then when I finally cut it open, I thought oops under-proofed. But think thinking about it more I thought overall it is somewhat over proofed.
Benny
That's fair, regarding wanting to improve each time! I just feel that often people are a touch too worried about achieving absolute perfection, though of course that may not be the case with you!
Benny, you're right it's over done. Reduce your starter to 5%. Use cold water. Spread out your folds to an hour. Mix the dough by 5:30pm to bake by about 9:00am. Add 1% gluten flour if you have access. Take diastatic malt to 1%. If you have something like kitchen aide use that to get to windowpane at the start of the process. Cook at 450 18 on and up to 18 off.. you'll be happy.. a lot will depend on how good your bread flour is.. but should be better.. i think.. Good luck! Let me know!
Thank you for your input, I appreciate each and everyone’s opinions, as I’ve said I do wish to learn from each bake and knowing if this was over or under is an important part of that. I will adjust my methods a bit depending on the ambient temperatures next time I bake. Toronto was 30ºC today and sooo humid. Not sure what it will be by Friday, but I will try to adjust and improve the next bake.
Benny
Did I miss something? I don't see the pea flower listed in your ingredients at all. What exactly was your method for that part? Do you just use tea instead of water? For all the water? Do you need to do anything to make an extra strong tea to get that much color?
Sorry that part of the recipe didn’t get copied, I fixed that now. Yes you use the butterfly pea flower to make a tea for all the water. I would use less butterfly pea flower next time for a more subtle colour.
But that color is beautiful! LOL. It might seem weird to eat something that color though. Ty for fixing the recipe.