August 12, 2019 - 12:50pm
Sourdough Yeast
Is there a dry yeast like Red Star that will produce sourdough bread? I realize there are many different types of SD microbes, based on locale. But in brewing beer at home there are hundreds of different types yeasts available, each imparting a different flavor. If this is possible, why hasn't some company developed different types of bread yeasts?
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Not sure if this is what you're looking for but I saw this on the Internet.
https://redstaryeast.com/red-star-platinum-instant-sourdough-yeast/
Benito, that's pretty much what I was looking for. But I'm confused about what the web site says:
"Platinum® Instant Sourdough is not meant to be used in place of a sourdough starter.
Simply substitute one packet of Platinum® Instant Sourdough for one 1/4 oz. packet of any dry yeast in any recipe. Use in any of your favorite yeast recipes to Sourdough It Up!"
First sentence says it's not meant to be used in place of a sourdough starter. Second sentence says substitute 1/4 pack of dry yeast with one pack of Platinum instant sourdough.
So, do I use Platinum as a substitute or do I still need some type of starter? Confusing.
Sorry I've never used this product but it was what I remember reading about sometime in the past so thought I'd bring it to your attention.
Benny
Anyone know how to use this product?
Maybe what they're getting at is that it's not a one-to-one replacement, because it doesn't provide the water and flour that comes along with a sourdough starter. Only the leavening and flavoring agents. And so it can be used in straight dough formulas in the same manner as commercial yeast, to give you a sourdough effect. If all the yeast and bacteria are live, then it could probably be used for a preferment as well.
The recipe for baguettes is given by Red Star as:
https://redstaryeast.com/recipes/platinum-instant-sourdough-baguettes/
The yeast is not available yet in my locale and the free sample offer is temporarily not available. I guess I'll have to wait a while for it.
I read up on that product recently. I read that some people tried to make SD starter with the yeast package. The reply was that is not the purpose of the product.
It is to be used exactly as you would commercial yeast, but the bread would have a Sd flavor. I didn’t investigate further because the reviews indicated that the sour was not strong, but was noticeable.
With all the talk here about sourdough breads and starters, I'm curious about baking some SD bread. But so many folks seem to have all kinds of problems with their starter (including me one time) that I gave up on the idea. But if there's an instant fix, I'll try it. Lazy me. And now I find it's not yet available. Bummer.
https://www.amazon.com/Platinum-Instant-Sourdough-Yeast-packet/dp/B07MXMTX53/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2859ERYQNTD2T&keywords=red+star+platinum+yeast&qid=1565709460&s=gateway&sprefix=Red+star+%2Caps%2C176&sr=8-3
OldBaker, if you want to try SD starters again, I am happy to send some of mine in dehydrated form. Send me a PM with your mailing address if you want some.
PM sent. And your link opens up some other possibilities.
The French yeast company, Lesaffre, makes a sourdough yeast that is not intended to create an ongoing culture. It is for one time use to create a levain that is used to make a bread dough. King Arthur used to sell three different varieties of the yeast. However now they just list one. it is quite pricey, but could be worth it for the convenience
Charles.
The only SD yeast I see on the KA site is a starter kit. Probably $2 for the yeast and $30 for the crock. No thanks.
at $9.95 for the package of sourdough yeast starter. Here's the link:
https://shop.kingarthurflour.com/items/french-style-sourdough-starter-5g
I’ve used this product to build an overnight levain. One package is good enough for 4-5 300g levain builds.
The flavor is mildly sour and quite nice. I am as happy with the results from Florapan LA4 as I am from my rye starter, though maybe I would give my starter a nudge for some subtle complexity.
Regardless, it’s a good product. Remember to refrigerate it even when unopened.
https://www.modernistpantry.com/florapan-starter-culture.html
No way. I'll do without, thanks.
For clarity, it works out to about $2 per levain build. I imagine it is great for people who need consistency/predictability or infrequent bakers who typically don't want the bother of maintaining a pet, even in the refrigerator. Also, it does have a good flavor.
Nevertheless, I enjoy the idiosyncrasies of my homegrown pets.
But that's over $900/lb. That's excessive IMO.
It’s a good thing we’re not into high-end incense. This piece of fragrant wood costs over $600,000/lb.
https://www.japanincense.com/sh0213.html
1 gram, $1600, is enough for 2 Japanese incense sessions:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kōdō
Someone has the money for these things!
I was happy to find this thread. I have been curious about Florapan and recently made my first bake with it. This is using unbleached bread flour with an overnight retard. The dough and subsequent bread came out very fragrant (almost commercially so). The crust was flaky. Initially there was a slight sour tang, which increased with time (by Day 3 the bread was quite sour).
I plan to try next with the addition of whole wheat.
I'd be very interested to hear of anyone else's experience with Florapan - there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of chatter about it on the internet. I don't see it as a replacement for sourdough, but as another tool in the toolbox of bread baking.
I bought some Florapan from KAF a few years ago. I tended to be a little creative with using it— I would put a pinch in to a preferment with a little yeast (I was trying to make it last longer) when making various white breads in my bread machine. Some of the loaves came out really good and I got rave reviews, especially when I made braided egg breads for the holidays. I wish I had written down exactly what I did but, alas, No, I’m not that organized.
Since then I have been trying to figure a way to buy larger quantities of the powder with no luck. If anyone has an idea, please let me know. I emailed to the company and to KAF and did not get my request resolved.
So since I’m ‘Covid cloistered’ I’ve taken up bread baking again and broke down and ordered a new KAF packet and have a batch of the preferment brewing. I want to try to make a Pan de Mie with it to see if I can boost the ordinary flavor profile of my usual recipe. I think I will use half of the preferment and boost the mix with a little SAF yeast.
If anyone has had any interesting successes with the Florapan, I would love to hear about it.
Thx., T.
While I don't have an answer to your question (where to purchase Florapan in bulk), I was happy to see your post.
I, too, have been experimenting with the Florapan. I've done several bakes using a recipe designed to incorporate Florapan in the pre-ferment (and yeast in the dough). I've been very happy with the results.
However, tomorrow I am planning to try and convert one of my regular recipes to one using the Florapan. I'll be adding it as the sole leavener to a biga for a ciabatta, while still using a yeast spike in the dough.
Same as you, I'm looking to enhance the flavor profile of my usual recipe, much in the way I have been doing on occasion by adding old dough or sourdough discard to traditional recipes.
Please post your trials and results - I would be quite interested to read them. I will do same.
Beth, fyi, This week I made two different loaves using Florapan.
First was a Pan de Mie using a modified recipe from “Breaking Bread” by Martin Philip, who is a lead baker at King Arthur. I just adjusted the recipe by making a pre-ferment using a quarter teaspoon of Florapan And one cup of flour and water (subtracted from the original recipe) and left It for a few hours, then proceeded with the recipe (reducing the ingredient amounts in proportion And the SAF yeast). This Loaf got rave reviews from my family but it was like a traditional pan de mie in terms of crust and texture.
For the second loaf I tried to follow the recipe on the King Arthur site for the Florapan starter. This Process took a long time because of the rising periods. My preferment and dough took forever in each phase to rise and finally I just put it in a 13” greased KA pullman pan and placed it in the fridge over night because I ran out of time. I took it out mid morning and left it for a half hour and was still not ready to bake so I rigged up a proofing box to help it along. After another hour it had risen some so I stuck the pullman pan in the hot oven (I think around 400 degrees) and baked it for a Half hour. I took it out when it reached 200 degrees and cooled it for 2 hours. This loaf was much more like a subtle but tasty sour dough with a crispy chewy crust. Very good. It did not taste like San Fran sour dough but rather like the ‘farm house’ loaves we used to buy in the bakery in London. Very good for cheese toasties.
I have to work on my process and timing. ( I took photos but for some reason they look upside down when I try to post them. ) If the Florapan were not so expensive I would add a little in to each of my regular pre ferment sandwich loaf bakes. I did see in an online video—I think on Modernist Baking—that they said you could make a starter with the Florapan and use it for a few loaves before the original flavor would die out completely, so I may try this.
I will keep recording my experiments in case any body is interested. And maybe in the meantime I will find a source for less costly Florapan.
Interesting. I just finished the ciabatta bake using a biga incorporating the Florapan.
My recipe calls for ¼ t. yeast with 120 grams (1 cup) of flour for the biga and a preferment for 12 hours at room temperature (with which I have always had excellent results). Here I used 1/8 t. of the Florapan in lieu of the yeast, all other elements of the biga were the same as previous bakes. After 12 hours there was very little life in the biga, so I gave it a full 24 hours at room temp plus overnight in the fridge, but at no stage did the biga get as aerated as it does when using yeast. After all that time it was slightly webby with just a few bubbles. Rather than drag it out any longer, I made the dough and baked the bread, knowing the yeast in the dough would make up the difference. I used only 1/8 t. of the Florapan because I was trying to stretch it out due to cost.
The bread baked up just fine, with very nice oven spring, but the crumb was not nearly as airy (no big holes) as in previous bakes. I came to the conclusion that I shouldn’t skimp, and next time I would try the full ¼ t. of Florapan in the biga, the same ratio as you used for your pain de mie.
I've had very good luck with the KAF recipe for the Florapan starter and have made boules several times, although agree, the bulk ferment can go on and on, especially if incorporating whole wheat. I normally run my proofing box at 70 degrees F., but may start ratcheting that up to expedite things.
I won’t be able to experiment again until we’ve eaten through some current bakes (a lot of bread in the freezer at the moment), but I will post when I do.
i baked with a free sample. I was unimpressed with flavor and texture. I think that all that's wonderful about sourdough takes time to develop. This didn't.
frankly, I would give away another free sample if I had one rather than continue to experiment.