Japanese white sandwich loaf with raisin yeast water
Here is a updated version of the Japanese sandwich loaf with raisin yeast water.
I increase the sugar amount to 12 g instead of 8 g after I have tested for a while. When it is less sugar, the crumb tends to be very shredded, that bothered me.. When I increased the sugar, the crumb came out wonderfully. I also recommend to use honey too. It came out softer and less shredded. Somehow, When I used 8g honey, at the final proof, the dough didn't rise as much as usual, however, it rose quite well in the oven. Putting 12 g honey in the dough, it came out great as usual. I enjoy to taste of the difference between honey and sugar.
Sugar 12 g 
Baked for 35 minutes at 410F.
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Honey 12g 
I forgot to take a picture of the loaf unfortunately..
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Learning nice white sandwich loaves by Professor Calvel, I wanted to make a nice loaf like his but using my raisin yeast water. I have worked on for a couple months to make nice volume and crumb. It is a surprinsingly good loaf to my taste.
Japanese style white sandwich loaf with raisin yeast:
( pullman２３ｃｍｘ１０．５ｃｍｘ１０ｃｍ: 1 loaf)
Ingredients:
Levain:
KA AP 149g
Raisin yeast water 107g （ I use the raisin yeast that is rest in a refrigerator for 1 or 2 days after refreshing)
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Final dough
KA bread flour 301g
Water 144g ( I use 40℃ in winter） DDT26℃
Egg yolk (1) + Whipping cream 58g
Sugar or honey 12g
Butter 29g
Salt 6.8g
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Method:
1. Make the levain ( rest for 12 hours ) at 24℃ around
2. Mix the final ingredients except the salt --- Autolyze for 30 minutes
3. Add the salt-- knead until the gluten developed for about 10-12 minutes.( until you can see window pane )
4. Bulk fermentation : 3-4 hours at 24-28℃ around. ( 2.5-3 times in volume)
5. Divide
6. Preshape a ball shape ( Please check my shaping method if you like : http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/19141/white-sandwich-bread ) Or, you can shape into 3 balls-- http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23006/goma-shokupan-sesami-loaf
7. Shape
8. Proof About 2 hours at 28℃ ( the dough rises up to the top of the tin) This loaf doesn't rise much more than the commercial yeast bread at this time.
9. Bake : Preheat 215.5℃/ 420F
Decrease 210℃/ 410F and bake for 25 minutes
and rotate your tin loaf pan 180 degree and bake 10 more minutes to have even crust.
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Or you can try " cold start method" Start from a cold oven( You don't preheat your oven at all)
" Cold start"
1)Set up 284F/ 140F and put the loaf in the cold oven: set up the timer for 20 minutes.
2) Increase the temperature at 410F/210℃ for 15 minutes / rotate 180 degree the loaf pan and bake more 10 minutes.
See the detail of " cold start method" here :http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23054/cold-start
I have noticed the color of the one side's crust looks pale after baking when I used cold start ( http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23054/cold-start )like this picture below:
This side looks pale.
This side is fine.
I recommend to rotate the loaf 180 degree after baking last 10 minutes of the baking. Or, you can add 8-14g sugar in the final dough if you want to have darker crust or sweeter taste in your loaf. If I made sweet rolls with this formula, I will add 14g sugar in the final dough.
* Note You can be flexible when you make this loaf. If you don't have enough time to let it rise until tripled on second bulk fermentation, You better skip the step. Otherwise, the crumb will be gluey that is what I found out. The key is let the dough rest fully enough before shaping.
One more thing is that you can add 7-14g sugar in the dough. It is depends of what kind of yeast water you use because your yeast water's sugar level may be vary.
Happy baking,
Akiko
Akiko:
I've wanted to explore the area of bread making using liquid preferments but have not had the time to try it yet. Your post will be a good reference when the time comes. Thank you for sharing!
Yippee
Hi, Yippee!!
Thank you for your compliment and kind words. I will say " Welcome to yeast water world! " when you try. :) Some members of TFL including me will help you out when you have any quesions!
Happy baking,
Akiko
Beautiful Tall loaf, Akiko! Just wondering whether lactobacillus have joined the population in your culture?
Thank you for your compliment, Khalid!
I assume that lactobacillus grows in the dough (when I mix my culture with flour and water.) It will need for a long fermentation to grow lactobacillus and acetic acid until I taste it. When I make 3 build levain bread with my raisin yeast water, I always feel that bread is like Hamelman's Pain au levan. :)
Here is the result of the bread.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/6012/baking-natural-wild-yeast-water-not-sourdough#comment-152486
I can make sourdough using my raisin yeast. Tada- :)
Akiko
Hi, Akiko:
Since I've never used yeast water to leaven any bread dough (with the exception of building my SD starters), I'm not sure what the impact on the flavor profile is when different % of yeast water is used to build the levain. In your sandwich loaf, you used about 24% of yeast water to build your 72% hydration levain. How did your bread taste? What is the range of %s of yeast water you've used so far to prepare your levain? How would the flavors differ if I use 5%, or 45% of yeast water when building my levain? Any insight is much appreciated. Thank you.
Yippee
Hi, Yippee
I don't taste any different flavor to compare to the bread with dry yeast, but nicely sweet from the raisins. However, I feel that this bread with raisin yeast has more volume when you bite it off. It will have different result when you use other kind of yeast water. Raisin yeast doesn't have any typical smell that is why I like. If I use other kind of yeast water, I will try strawberry yeast that has pleasant smell, and more powerful than raisin yeast. Raisin and strawberry yeast are my favorites because I can get crumb like the bread with commercial yeast.
I think that is the same thing when you use SD starters although I never had tried 5% yeast water levain. When I tried 50% yeast water levain, the bread was too spongy. 10% yeast water levain has less volume. but it will be different situation depends on how you knead the dough.( S & F ) That is my thoughts..
I hope that will help you. ;)
Akiko
Akiko:
How's your family in Japan? I hope everything's fine.
Best wishes
Yippee
Thank you for your kind word, Yippee.
My family is fine, but they can't use any water, electric and gas and their houses are still a mess... There are a lot of huge cracks in the streets around there. Unfortunetely, It is worse than I expected.. More than 1000 people were killed already. It has been 4-6M earthquake in Japan constantly.. It is so sad to see such a tragedy.. I pray for them and for the people in Christchurch, too.
Sincerely,
Akiko
Everything else can be rebuilt, as long as the people are around. Thank you for your reply and best wishes to your family and the people in Japan.
Yippee
Hi, Yippee. Thank you for your thoughtful words for Japanese people. The ratio of more than 7M earthquake might hit to Japan in a week decreases down to 40% from 70% right now. The people in the coast line don't have get enough water... They expect more than 10000 people lost their lives now that made me speechless and hurt my heart.
Hi, Akiko:
I'm curious about what the advantage(s) / purpose(s) is to let the dough rise twice to double? Could you please elaborate? Thanks.
Yippee
About the bulkfermentation x 2:
I learned it frorm Sortachef's recipe : http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20392/making-cemitas-great-sandwich-rolls-puebla-mexico
The dough has more volume obiously and the crumb is softer . I like the texture.
Last weekend ( yesterday), I made this sandwich loaf, then I realized that I had to go out when the dough needed to be baked. I left the dough in the garage ( The temperature was 10℃ for 2.5 hours. I was surprised to see that the dough rose up to 17cm height. The crumb was even, not big holes on the top. It tasted great, too.
I hope that will help you, Yippee.
Best wishes,
Akiko
It surely is very helpful! And your link has brought me to another blog which is also very eye pleasing and informational. Thank you!
Yippee
Your welcome, Yippee. I am glad that my posts are helpful to you.
:) Akiko
Hi, Akiko:
Just wanted to make sure if no sugar was used as I don't see it in your formula.
BTW, how do you refresh liquid fruit yeast and how long does it take to complete refreshment? If I have to wait for another few days, I'll probably just use my week-old fruit yeast as is cos' I don't want to wait anymore! :)
Yippee
Hi, Yippee
I don't use any sugar, Yippee. I used to put 7g sugar, but I noticed that I don't need it.. Raisin has enough sugar itself.
About refresh my raisin yeast:
I keep 1/8 cup the raisin yeast water and add some raisin, the 1/8 raisin yeast water, and 3 times amount water as to the raisin. It takes a day to fully ferment it at 76F-78F/24.44-25.56℃ around。( I refresh it before going to bed, I actually don't know how long it takes exactly.)
I also keep my raisin yeast in a refrigerator without taking out the raisins. It is good to leave some sugar in the yeast water. I saw some Japanese home bakers do it. It is easy to maintain for me. I refresh my raisin yeast every other day or 3 days at least.
Good luck, Yippee
Akiko
... but I noticed that I don't need it...; Raisin has enough sugar itself...
Hi, Akiko:
Did you mean 'enough' for taste or for fermentation, or both? Thanks again!
Yippee
Hi, Yippee
Raisins has enough sugar to ferment and make this bread to my taste.
When you use dry fruit to make fruit yeast water, You don't have to add any sugar to ferment.
Please let me know how turns out your result. Even if you are not successful, Please tell me the truth. :) This process will be helpful to other TFL members, too :)
Akiko
...Please let me know how turns out your result. Even if you are not successful...
I'll be your shadow until I get it right. Just hope you don't try to get rid of me before then... :)
Yippee
....When you use dry fruit to make fruit yeast water, You don't have to add any sugar to ferment...
I don't.
I was just wondering if it's omitted in the formula inadvertently.
Akiko, am I expecting to see all the new raisins added floating on top like the old ones when the refreshment is completed? Thanks.
Yippee
Yes, You just wait until the raisin that you addded floating on the top of the water. But it will be fermented in couple hours before the raisins floating up to the top when you leave a lot of your old yeast water that is already fermented. ( like Half fermented yeast water( keeper) and half water or so...) I like to refresh using little amount fully fermented yeast water ( like I said, 1/8 cup's).
Cheers,
Akiko
Let me give it a try!
Yippee
The bake went well and your bread is delicious! It will take me a while to blog it but I wanted to let you now that everything's fine. Thank you!
Yippee
YAY! Yippee!! Thank you for telling me the good news before you post it. I am so happy to hear that my recipes worked out for you, too! I make this bread every other day. I am planing to buy a bigger loaf pan now..
Best wishes,
Akiko
I have this bread in the third proofing as we speak. It was a fun loaf to make and my fruity yeast has been perking along for a week or so and was all bubbly and frothy. It is rising nicely as we speak.
I love trying new breads and with the new yeasties, it added lots of interest to trying this. Thanks to you all. I can't imagine that it would be anything besides delish because it was soft and handled so nicely.....Can't wait to try it.
Thank you Ladies for the inspiration. I just blogged about my bread and I thank you all for sharing the instructions with me. It really tastes devine and was such fun to make.
Hello Ruthieg,
Thank you for your feed back that looks great!!! I am so happy to see your wonderful looking bread!!! You did a great job!!
I also like to try new things :) I highly recommend you to try Ron's sourdough cracker that is really great. These crackers stay crispy like stored crackers. I like stick-shaped crackers that are crispier. Here is his recipe:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/22562/sourdough-crackers
And this is his crackers with chedder cheese that was posted by Txfarmer.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23144/ron039s-sourdough-crackers-added-some-cheddar-cheese
Cheers,
Akiko
baggies, I have to try this and I don't normally make or eat white bread .
Hi dabrownman,
You better retard the sandwich loaf when you try as I replied it to the other post. :)
Please let us know how your loaf turns out when you try.
Happy bubbles!
Akiko
if I was going to bake today when she saw me get out the MMAYW(mandarin, minneola, apple, yeast water out to start the levain build for Monday's bake off of Akikio's Famously Great, and not too bad, White Sandwich Bread with YW :-) I will make Panko with it too since I am low on it and hate paying $3 a pound for bread crumbs. Do you just grate the bread and let it dry in a 200 F oven?
Hi dabrownman,
Yeah, I agree.. I don't want to pay any extra money to buy Panko although I have a lot of bread in the freezer...
For me.. I don't dry the bread crumb.. I just put the bread in a food processor and run for until the bread completely crushed.
I am little nervous to hear the result from you to be honest... Please let me know even if you don't like...
Happy baking,
Akiko
be wrong with YW panko bread crumbs? We will be forced to charge extra for them, $5 a pound, with raisin flavor and MMA flavor :-)
That is great to hear it from you!
for your white sandwich bread, this has cream in it !!! Now I know it is going to be really good. Just did the second build on teh levain. Up to 75g now.
:) I like to use heavy whipping cream in the dough.. I also like to use only egg yolk for giving moist and more flavor. My heart is beating faster to hear your result....
Are you getting that huge spring without any steam at all? D you just bake the loaf on a stone or right on the oven racks? You said I should retard the dough but I don't see that step in your recipe. I have to see how you shape these loaves per the links you supplied too. Thanks again for all of your help.
Hi dabrownman,
I am sorry for the delay reply...
I spray 2-4 times around the wall of the oven before baking.
Yes, I bake it on a stone. I am lazy enough not to remove my stone when I bake any sandwich loaves... Sometimes, I bake it on the oven racks when I had to remove the stone to bake cakes for the baking schedule. I have had good oven spring what so ever though...
Yeah, if you like sour flavor in the sandwich loaf. I like the sandwich loaf with apple yeast water because the AYW was really slow to rise.... Slow rise is a good for me to retard any doughs because they don't get so sour, Also apple yeast water doesn't get sour.... I am not a keen sour seeker. It is up to your taste.
You are always very welcome! Your posts are very interesting for me, and give me some ideas to make something new!
Happy bubbles,
Akiko
With this bread, I wanted to bake it today but forgot my wife was off work because of the holiday and she kept me busy all day - so no baking. I retarded the levain right after I did the final build yesterday about this time and just got it out of the fridge so it will be ready to go tomorrow morning. I'm not sure how this 24 hour retard will affect the levain (a d bread later) but it should be OK since the YW levain was strong before it went into the fridge. I am very happy with it - if it can shake off the cold. While I wait for the White Loaf to rise tomorrow I will proof and bake off Phil's Vollkornbrot he posted a day or two ago. It will be my first real rye bread.
So two exciting bakes are set for tomorrow. Hope you are feeling better and getting back to your old baking self.
Vollkronbrot and the white loaf with YW.... I am looking forward to hear your results!!
24 hours retarding... I remember that Ron ( RonRay) did longer retarding before. I think that he said that these breads were not sour at all.. I don't know how your bread turns out... It is very interesting!
My family has been sick .... I am getting better as much as I could make some cakes.. :) Thank you so much for your kind words.
I am going to check Phil's Vollkornbrot now. :) Thank you for telling me.
Akiko
after the last build to get it to 256 g. I got the levain out of the fridge at 4:30 this morning and now the dough is autolyse for 30 minutes. I'm not sure If I will retard the dough or not. It depends on how it rises in fermentation / development. Very strange to do a dark and light on the same day though. I'm struggling with the dark right now. Will keep you updated.
Thank you for updating, dabrownman .
If the dough rises faster, you better bake it today. If it is slow ( over 6 hours), I recommend it to retard for overnight, then leave it at room temperature ( colder to warmer place) for 2hours or the dough is ready. Dough is alive,so I treat her or him gently.:)
After 4 hours of ferment it had more than doubled so I shaped it and put it in the pan for final proof. If it raise to slightly over the lip of the pan in 2 hours, I will bake it off today or will retard it per your recommendations and bake it off tomorrow. I love the smell of this bread with the hint of orange YW - I hope that smell stays.. Very similar to Shiao- Ping's Orange Turmeric but hers used orange juice for part of the water too. I think your white bread could also use orange for part of the water with orange YW and get a very nice orange smell, slight orange color and orange taste too. Something to think about for future variations.
Right now the house smells of Phil's Vollkornbrot - very nice bread I hope - fingers crossed. I am already pretty sure your white sandwich loaf will be a fine bread -if I don't muck it up from here on.
Thanks again Akiko. Saw pictures of your broken KA and hope that doesn't happen to mine. Did you tear it apart to fix it? Very brave and fearless.
since I put it in the pan and it is only up 50% so it looks like a 12 hour final rise is in order. Unless, maybe my pan is too big. What size pan do you use Akiko?
The Vollkornbrot came out fairly decent. I posted it on PiPs blog . No crumb shots for 48 hours.
I'm going to oil the top of the loaf before I refrigerate it so it doesn't dry out. I see you don't slash it either. Learning something new every day :-)
Hi, dabrownman
I am sorry that I didn't reply for a while . I went to bed very early last night.
My pan size is 23cm x 10cm x 10 cm. Your loaf will rise in the oven .
Did you retard it? If you retard it for over night, you better leave the pan loaf at room temperature like I said it at the last comment.
I saw your Phil 's 100% rye loaf! Oh my goodness, you made such a great one. Many people failed it for many times including me.
Phil's advice is wonderful. Someday, I want to try that too.
Thank you for kind words for my brooven idler. My husband ordered the parts and fix it. It wasn't not as easy as he thought.
Because My kitchen aid mixer had problems more than one thing. He had to ordered more parts.
You are such a great baker and cook . I am impressed to see your sandwiches with various breads you made.
Akiko
I did retard it overnight for 7 hours or so and have it proofing a 74 F for the last 3 hours. Oopsss.... My pan is 24cm x 14cm x 7 cm. My pan area is 40% larger than your pan area so it will rise 40% less up the pan than yours. Yours rose 3/4" over the top of your pan so mine should make it at least half way up mine. It ia not quite half way up the pan now, so I will wait for it to get at least up to there. If you discount the 2 hours it took to warm up this morning it has only been in final proof for 8 hours or so. It may end up being a strange looking white bread loaf but if it rises to the top of the pan after baking it will just fine. I really like this dough. It is luxurious - no? I have to remember that ......Patience...comes to those who wait a long, long time :-)
Phil's rye bread was also fun to make. It was just a sticky sloppy mess, I must have had too much water in it, that you had to shapes as best you could, plop it in the pan and hope for the best. It looks OK, not nearly as good as Phil's, but it is brickish and heavy as one :-) We will see if it is any good when I cut into it tomorrow. It could be all show and no go - but thanks for your kind words.
Your husband is a fearless tinkerer!!! I thought I could fix anything but he is light years beyond anything I would try to fix :-) But they say, if you have a KA and make bread - it will break sooner rather than later.
Thanks for all your help. This bread is making some sense to me now and I feel better about it not rising like I thought it would. - It's all in the pan size .
in the oven to 1" over the rim of the pan from the middle of the pan. This looks like some real nice sandwich bread. I baked it 400 F convection for 30 minutes only and turned it 180 degrees at 15 minutes. I had a boiling 1/2 cup of water in a Pyrex measuring cup in the back of the oven and I threw 1/2 C of boiling water on the floor of the mini oven which I used for this bake like it did with the Vollkornbrot. I took the steam out at the 15 min mark. When the loaf hit 205 F, I turned off the oven and cracked open the door and let the loaf sit in the oven for another 10 minutes. While resting in the oven it hit 210 F and was back down to 206 after the 10 minute rest. The crust is amazing. So beautifully brown and crunchy !
Thanks Akiko, I think it came out great can't wait for it to cool down - here are some pix's
Ohhh.. Looks great!!! I just wanted to tell you how happy I am!
Next day, the tastewill be much better. I will come back to write more...
As a special surpise for you, I just put this in the pan for final proofing. What do you think?
Japanese White Whole Wheat, Orange, Apple Turmeric, Seeded YW Bread
Levain:
KA bread flour - 75g
KA White WW flour – 75g
Yeast water 115g
Total levain build 265g – at80 F
First build - 25g of both flours and 50g yeast water. Second build 4 hours later - 25g each flour and 65g YW. Third build 25g of both flours = stiff levain. Let sit 4 more hours.
I use Mandarin, Minneola Apple Yeast Water 2 days after refreshing from the refrigerator and reserve the apple and orange solids for the bread.
Final Dough
KA bread flour - 200g
KA White Whole Wheat - 100g
Water - 75g
Orange Juice - 80g
Egg yolk - 1
Whipping Cream - 60g
Sugar - 6g
Honey -6 g
Butter - 29g
Salt - 6g
2 tsp each Nigella, chia and basil seeds (hanseata’s contribution)
¼ tsp turmeric – for color
Apple and orange solids, patted dry with paper towel, from the previous YW refresh 2 days before levain build began.
The entire levain
Directions:
Make the levain - for 12 hours at80 F
In stand mixer - mix the final ingredients, except the salt and reserved YW solids, with paddle at #2 - Autolyze for 30 minutes.
Add the salt-- knead with dough hook starting on #2 and moving to #3 and #4 until the gluten develops to window pane stage for about 8-10 minutes. Flatten, do S& F while incorporating the reserved YW solids into the dough. Shape into ball and transfer to an oiled bowel and cover with oiled plastic wrap.
Bulk ferment: 3 hours at 80 –82 Funtil the dough at least doubles. Do one S &F at 30 and another at 60 minutes.
Pre-shape fermented dough into ball and let rest 10 minutes. Shape into loaf and place in oil sprayed 4 ½ x 8 ½ x 3 Pyrex loaf pan. Cover pan with oiled plastic wrap.
Proof: 2-6 hours at82 Funtil the dough at least rises up to the top of the pan.
Preheat oven to450Fwith a loaf pan half filled with water and a12”cast iron skillet in the bottom of the oven and a stone on the next rack level above for 45 minutes.
Decrease temperature to400F, throw a ½ cup of water into the cast iron skillet place bread into oven and bake for 12 minutes.
Take out steaming apparatus, rotate loaf 180 degrees and bake for another 12 minutes.
Place probe into the middle of the nearly finished loaf from the side and bake until the loaf hits205 F. Turn off oven, take loaf out of pan, crack oven door open, place loaf back on stone and let the loaf sit in oven for 10 minutes more to crisp the crust.
Remove loaf from oven and let cool to room temperature, about one hour, on a wire rack.
From an obvious "newbie", what is "raisin yeast water" and how do I make it. This bread looks exactly like what I hope to successfully make. Thanks.
Cultivating natural wild yeast by soaking fruit (dried or fresh) in water, keeping warm and waiting till the fruit is all floating and it's fizzing which is the indicator it's ready. Then you make a Pre-Ferment with the water + flour (like a poolish but the yeast is the yeast water) and use the Pre-Ferment in the dough.
YW Primer