February 18, 2008 - 4:36pm
Baking with natural wild yeast water (not sourdough)
Hi, everyone.
I'm new to this site and have a question.
This sled is about capturing wild yeast and bake with it, right?
It seems like people are making sourdough starter and baking sourdough bread.
Is anybody baking non-sourdough with fresh fruit yeast (or dried fruits yeast) like me?
http://originalyeast.blogspot.com/
This is my blog. I don't know if there are many people out there baking with fresh fruits / dried fruits yeast here...
If you are interested, please leave comment here or at my blog.
I want to have friends who has same interests!
Thanks!
Share
Yes, wao, I'm very interested in this, I love to ferment things...I make & use kefir on a regular basis & I'm an avid bread baker...I've tried sourdough several times with no real success. I am so inspired...I've already begun to soak my dried blueberries & cranberries...tomorrow I'll get some raisins...Thanks! Beth
Hi, Beth.
I am happy to find somebody who is interested in this baking method.
Please buy raisins with no oil coating to obtain good result.
I bet you will find yeast water very cute!
My yeast water is very cute and spoiled. I even talk to it ...
Good Luck! Thanks for the comment.
This is interesting. I've only recently found success (several failures too!) with a sourdough culture which is in itself a fascinating ever shifting balance of lactobacillus, yeast and their byproducts but Wild yeast water sounds fantastic.
Would I be right in thinking some of the fruity taste from the soaked ingredients is imparted to the bread? (that would be awesome in the context of fruited panettone or currant buns for example)
Also I read that the yeast used in japanese breads was traditionally obtained from the fermentation of rice to make sake. Hmmm...rice yeast...I wonder if it's possible...
Hi. Thanks for the comment.
I know, it's not easy to make sourdough with water and flour.
This dried fruits and fresh fruits method does make the yeast water fruity.
If you use natural yeast water only to make your dough and don't put too much butter or other strong flavor ingredients, you can slightly smell strawberry, peach or several other strong flavor fruits from the bread.
You can definitely enjoy crumb color. If you bake with strawberry yeast, you can make purplish color crumb.
About rice yeast.
There are 2 kinds of major rice yeast. I think you are talking about sake yeast (it's called saka-dane in Japanese). Professional bakers use this yeast (same yeast as what sake makers use to ferment rice to brew sake) to make Japanese red bean paste bread but the yeast is so delicate and hard to control, amateur people cannnot use it.
If you live in Japan or city where many Japanese people live, you might be able to get "sakekasu", stuff you get after squeeze sake from fermetned rice mixture, that works like yeast.
There is one more way to use rice to make yeast. That is when you refresh your yeast water, you can feed cooked rice as your yeast's food because rice contains sugar.
There are some more ways to use rice for baking bread and they all seem fun to experiment.
Do you want to experiment those???
I love fermentation fun! Please continue to post your adventures and enlighten us with your interesting methods. Moreover, since I know next to nothing about Japanese breads, I would be delighted to learn more about them.
Inspired by your post, I just started making my own yeast water, using organic sun-dried apricots (unsulphured). They are very sweet, and I hope they will make good yeast water.
Thanks for posting this!
My bread blog: http://foldingpain.blogspot.com
Hi, woa...yes, I'm sure I'll think my yeast water is very cute...I am very fond of my kefir grains, I've known them for a long time, it's interesting how we can relate to another living organism!
The water in my cranberry & blueberry mixture is already bubbly, do you think that combination with make good yeast water?
I'll get the raisins (organic without an oil coating) today, thanks for all the good information!
Take care! Beth
What health risks are there with this method?
I know with Sourdough there is Leuconstoc and such but what about wildyeast?
You have a small disclaimer at the bottom of your recipe for making wild yeast saying "bake at own risk"
Risk of what?
TGB
Leuconostic bacteria aren't a health risk, they just don't work "right" and your bread doesn't rise well. If you keep feeding your sourdough culture, the leuconostic bacteria can't take the acidity and goes away.
Sourdough (which the yeast water is not) is a very stable and resilient symbiosis.
Mike
Mike,
I am an overly cautious person and for some reason got in my head that Leuconstoc could make us sick (toxins from it not the bug itself)
I have an enormous amount of respect for those things that need a microscope to be seen. They can break down a fall tree make us well and make us ill.
I must do some more research and perhaps I wont be so afraid of sourdough or wild yeast cultures ;)
TGB
Sourdough has withstood the test of time, having been in use for between 6,500 and 10,000 years.
Sourdough is a symbiotic relationship between yeast and lactobacillus bacteria. The bacteria produce 50 anti0bacterial compounds that have been identified, and few organisms can surbive the acidity of a sourdough culture.
A healthy sourdough culture is essentially benign. It makes food more digestible, and I have not heard of people reacting negatively to it.
Mike
I must seem silly to you then :)
Still, I think, having a kid made me overly cautious. I wouldnt get on a motorbike now for what happens if something happened and as my husband says......."and what if a meteorite falls from the sky Nadia"
I think this is a bit of a sign to get me to stop stressing over "contaminants"
If Jmonkey can eat the sourdough after their culture grew black mold,(he scraped the mold off and used a little culture from the bottom to make more starter) and not be wandering around seeing purple elephants and or retching.......then I just might be ok ;)
At least I think it was Jmonkey...but I might be wrong.
Hi, the greenbaker.
I put "bake/cook at own risk" sign(s) to all of my cooking sites and blogs.
According to several books that I own about baking natural wild yeast bread, they all say this is a safe way to bake bread but follow your instinct.
If you think the yeast water should not smell like how it smells, discard the water and start again. If you are a baker, you will probably know if the water is good or bad with some miscellaneous germs (I think this is s rare case...though) Good yeast water smalls like fruity wine.
In my experience, if you use a clean jar (washit with soap and dry in a rack, right out from washer, you can even disinfect by soaking your jar and lid into hot water.) you can get good results. Ah, and wash your hands beforehand :)
Here is how to make water
1. Mix dried fruits and water. loosely close the lid. (There is a hot "controversy" about close it tightly or loosely, but I prefer loosely. ..)
2. open the jar once a day (and smile at it! )
3. and be patient
4. You will eventualy see some bubbles. (usually start from some bigger bubbles in one day and later smaller bubbles.) At this time tighten the jar lid and wait for 2-3 hours and open the jar. You will hear "pshuu..." sound. Success!
____
FYI: Some books recommend this way. After mixing fruits and water, tightly close tha jar. Open and lightly shake the jar twice a day.
____
Enjoy!
Wao,
I think I am going to face some fears and give this a try :) Sour dough too.
Thanks for getting back to me and for adding your recipe to the thread :)
As ehanner asked...is there a feeding schedule once the yeast water has been established?
I am going down stairs, disinfecting a jam jar, washing my hands (of course *wink* I AM a baker after all and my hands are constanly doughey or under the tap!)
Thanks afain Wao!
TGB
Adding some sugar and/or honey to the mixture from the beginning makes the yeast water bubble up faster and yeild stronger yeast water.
Wao,
Thank you for posting your information on water yeast. I am curious about how you maintain your yeast water. I have a few flour based natural starters that I use to rise my breads and I know how they behave based on a schedule. I see you add fruit which I suspect provides the food for the bacteria. You must also be refilling the jar with water after using some of the liquid. Could you talk about how you feed and what the indications are when you know it is ready to be refreshed please? What about the old fruit?
Thank you,
Eric
Hi, Eric
I have info up on my blog this morning. http://originalyeast.blogspot.com/
I thought it's going to be a long post so I added the info here insted of here.
Sorry to make you to come to my blog...
Hope that would help you.
If you have question, you can post it here or on the blog.
Thank you! Have a nice day:)
Wao,
It would be more helpful if the thread here contained all of the useful information. It's nice that you keep your blog but people who are reading the thread then have to leave it.
Could you say which fruit creates the "Fruitiest" flavor in the bread? For example could you tell the difference between using peach and strawberry in a plain white bread, other than the color?
Eric
strawberries.
If you use a lot of crushed fruits instead of whole fruits to make yeast water, you can get ful flavored yeast water.
Also, when you use white flour, less flovourful ingredients (butter, EVoliveoil.. etc) and 100% yeast water (no plain water added when making dough) makes your dough fruity.
It is not fruity but tea leaf yeast bread smells fantastic, too.
enjoy baking:)
Hi, Woa...
After reading your information, I began my fruit water with dried blueberries & cranberrries. Bubbles appeared the first day, but then never again. 7 days later, I mixed some of the water with flour, per your instructions. The next day it looked the same, but by the following day (day 2), it had doubled. It's still at room temperature and still doubling after stirring it down...so I suppose it's too sour for bread and I should discard it. I refreshed the original yeast water after I used some, so I suppose it's ready to be used again. How long should you let the flour & yeast water sit at room temperature before making bread?
Thanks! Beth
Hi
I think your yeast water was not bubbling enough at the first time..?!
If you think your yeast water is ready now, follow the direction below :)
what you need for pre-fermented dough
a container with lid (zip-lock container, topperware ...)
FYI: 2/16/08, this mixture tripled in 10 hours at room temperature. (77 degreesF)making real dough.(recipe : easy petite roll bread)ingredients 100g=3,5oz , 200g=7oz , 50g=1.75oz'pre-fermented dough, all amount 180g' yeast water (bring it to room temperature if you keep it in the refrigerator)
' whole wheat flour
1. pour 80g (3 oz) yeast water in the container (soaked raisins can go into the dough if you prefer)
2. mix in 100g (3.5oz) of whole wheat flour
knead it with spoon or folk for about 3-5minutes.
When it is hot (room temperature80 °F and above), add a tiny bit of salt to avoid over fermentation.
Over fermentation makes your dough very sour.
Cover and let it sit over night. It will doubles-triple.
'AP flour, bread flour, whole wheat 120g white flour+80g whole wheat
'salt 1 teaspoon
'yeast water about 50g (room temperature)'water about 50-65g = 1.75oz-2.3oz
sugar, brown or honey 1 tablespoon
☆ Mix all the ingredients in a large bowl.
Knead for 10-20minutes to see some gluten film(jump to other bread making site. see a picturein the middleof the page) . Gluten film does not need to be very thin.
You can use a stand mixer or a bread maker. I use bread maker for kneading.
Place the dough in a bowl and let it sit for 2-6hours, until double in bulk. Time depends on the room temperature and yeast's strength.
In yeast water baking with whole wheat flour, 60-65% water (yeast water+water) in ratio to flour is enough. Also while the dough is rising, the dough is loosen and becomes soft. Please be careful how much water you add. It's easy to add water but difficult (almost inpossible) to remove water from the dough!
☆ After the first rise, take the dough out from the bowl and place it on the flat surface. If the dought is soft and hard to handle, dust some flour.☆ Divide the dough into 8 small balls. ☆ Let them rest for 15minutes under the damp cloth.☆ Lightly smash each dough and round it again.☆ Let the dough rise again for 2-2.5 hours under damp cloth. Until doubles in bulk.
Preheat oven 450 degrees. Heat a cookie sheet in the oven. Move the dough onto the sheet.Slash the top of the dough with wet knife. Mist the dough with water. Also mist inside the oven.
Bake dough for 15-16minutes at 400 degrees. (long shaped bread in the picture should be baked for 20minutes.)
FYI: 2/17/2008Room temp. 26 degreesC (77DegreeF). First rise 2 hours, second rise 2hours.
(you can see pictures here)http://originalyeast.blogspot.com/
*If your water is not bubbling enough, you can add 3tbsp of apple juice as yeasts' food. This works very well for energizing your water and add some flavor to your yeast water.
* Once you get bubbling yeast water and want to make another bottle of yeast water quick, you can start new yeast water with water and fruits and 1-2 tbsp of your already made yeast water. This method will help you making another jar of yeast water quick.
*Tomato and black tea yeast water is relatively quick to make.
Enjoy :)
Hi, woa...so, if I want to make the tea yeast water, I would use 3-4 tablespoons loose-leaf black tea, plain water, and 1 - 2 tablespoons of my already made yeast water? Does that sound about right? For the tomato, do you use fresh tomato?
Thank you, for all your help! Beth
P.S. Last night, I mixed another preferment with my apple & cherry yeast water...so far there's no activity...my house is only 60 degrees at night & when I'm gone to work, etc....so I think that's a big factor...
Beth,
When you make some bread with your yeast water I would LOVE to see the results.
I am intrigued with all this but havent yet started and did a google search on it and came up with naught. So seeing anothers experience would be fantastic!
TGB
More than just bread blog.
http://holistichedonist.wordpress.com/
Hi Beth,
Yeah, that's very true! I could not find any web sites or even a comment about this method of baking in english.
I think raisin yeast water is commonly used among professional bakers in Europe and Asia(many many Japanese house wives' HPs/blogs are specifically about how to enjoy with yeast water baking!) .
I think sourdough baking is the most popular way of baking with natural yeast in this country so other methods have not beed introduced??
I don't know... but this is a good way of feeling 4 seasons by choosing favorite ripe fruits to make yeast water and bake.
Professionals use raisins year round because raisin is available anytime of the year, but since we are home bakers, we can enjoy any kinds of fruits and vegetables when it's in season! Yay!
Have a great day!
To make basic tea yeast water, you need,
*1 table spoon loose black tea leaf
*1 cup of plain water
*1 table spoon honey
mix them together and wait for few days.
Since you already have some yeast water, you could add 1-2tbsp already made yeast water to this mixture to get even faster result.
About tomato yeast, yes, use fresh tomato.
Cut up a tomato into pieces and put them in a jar with water.
you can get faster result when you use more fruits/veg.
like, 'fruits/veg : water = 1:2' (weight ratio)
I don't know if you want to visit other website from here but since I do not have any pictures of tomato yeast, you can see it here.(this is a Japanese website so you might not read them but pictures might help you :)
http://arisukekoubou.tea-nifty.com/photos/tomato/index.html
(tomato yeast step by step, this person made focaccias with this yeast water, click pics to see bigger pictures))
http://weekly.yahoo.co.jp/13/countrylife/pan_handmade1.html
(some different kinds of fruits, herb and veg yeast water on page 1. On page 2, you can see 2 different kinds of bread making processes.)
Hope these sites could help you.
You can make dough in cool environment. It takes time. maybe up to 12 hours.
To find out if your yeast water is working or not, you can mix a tbsp of yeast water and 1.5 tbsp of ww flour in a small container, cover it and let it sit for a night(5-6hours at warm place like on top of refrigerator)) and see if some bubbles come on the surface.
Once you get the prefermented dough, you can save it in the refregerator for later baking as well as using it rightaway. (these are called pre-fermented dough method. strong and stable fermentation. less yeast water flovar))
You can even do "straight method". Mix all the bread dough ingredients and go for 1st rise. (6-12hours) Give the dough a light punch, ( rise, )shape, rise then bake. Takes longer time but you get flovorful bread.
I think prefermented dough method is easier to get good result but once you get the idea of baking with yeast water, you will be able to pick a method that suite your schedule and life style~! :)
Enjoy!
If you ever saw tea drying, you would do as the Chinese do. Rinse the tea under cold water first before ever using it.
Mini O
Ok, wao, I mixed-up my tea yeast water...I found (at the health food store) some apricot tea, it's black tea with apricot blossoms mixed in, it's extremely fragrant, I used that for my tea yeast water (they didn't have plain black tea).
My preferment from this morning is slightly airy but has not expanded yet...now that I'm home & the house is warmer, I think it'll take-off...should I wait until it doubles to mix the bread dough?
I am so excited to see the end result, the bread, from this venture...and yes, greenbaker, I'll try to post a pic...
woa, can you use yeast water for anything other than bread? It reminds me of rejuvelac, which is a tonic made from fermented, sprouted wheat berries...
Take care! Beth
woa...I mixed-up my tea yeast water about 2 hours ago and it's already bubbly, yippee...I did use some of my existing fruit yeast water...is that why it's so fast?
My preferment is still rather listless (I can see bubbles in the dough on the side of the container, so I think it's OK, it just needs time so I'll mix it before I go to work in the morning...
Have a good night! Beth
Sorry for my late response.
Yeah, I geuss tea is already fermented food so it's fast to bubble up and also because of your already made yeast water.
If you still don't get good result from your original preferment then try tea yeast water. You might be able to get good dough.
Well, this was more fermentation fun!
Susan from San Diego
Those look perfect Susan. Do they exhibit any of the qualities of the yeast or are they unique in any way in the crumb? Did they get the magic bowl treatment?
So many questions!!
Eric
Wow Susan!
What steps did you take to get these? They look great!
Did you use the same recipe on WAO's website?
How do they taste? How did the dough behave?
SOrry for the Q's but I am so curious!
TGB
More than just bread blog.
http://holistichedonist.wordpress.com/
TGB and Eric,
Thanks for your kind words.
Nothing really special to report. The water sat for 6 days, then I tried a preferment which didn't do much; I threw it out. So I added a teaspoon of sugar to the rest of the water mix and left it overnight. Made yet another preferment, which rose more than twice its bulk overnight. Then used the preferment to make the dough, as in the recipe.
The dough was a little slow, but I suspect that with multiple feeding cycles and warmer weather on the way, the rise will quicken, same as SD. I used Wao's roll recipe to the letter, which called for more WW than white flour, so the crumb was fairly tight. Next time I'll use more water to loosen the crumb a bit. That's not unusual here; the air is dry and I often have to add more water to a recipe. In retrospect, I should have started with the higher end of the recipe's water suggestion.
Tastes like bread! The dough was dough. The rolls puffed up nicely in the oven, as you can see.
Didn't use the Magic Bowl, Eric. Just a water spray on the rolls before I popped them in the oven.
Susan from San Diego
I made apricot water that sat on the counter for a week. I mixed it with flour last night, just like wao explained (80g water to 100g WW flour). I let it stand on the counter overnight. The mixture did not rise much (if at all), and did not get a nice fermented odour. However, when I lifted the dough, it did exhibit signs of fermentation, so something *is* happening there.
Anyhow, I added a dollop of honey to my apricot water, shook the jar really well, and I'll try again soon.
Wao, I looked at the links you gave us (the ones in Japanese). It seems like there are quite a few books regarding "yeast water". Do you have some more information for us regarding the origins of this method, etc.
My bread blog: http://foldingpain.blogspot.com
I went to the Japanese book store and looked for informtaion about this method's history but I could not find any good description.
One of the books stated that this is the one of the oldest method of baking bread.
Probably in a process of wine making, somebody experimented with bread dough or accidentaly mixed wine mixture with flour or something. Similar to how sourdough mothod was invented or found.
In eastern Europe, it is very common to use pine tree leaves to make yeast water and bake with it.
In China, professional "mantou"(white steamed buns) makers use "roumen"(non-sour wheat preferment) that is inherited to next generation for many many years.
I don't know if this kind of info is what you wanted to know...
If you have question (and if I could answer it...) I'm glad to share info with you, bshuvel. I visited your blog and I saw some bread pics! yummy~!
Wow really?
I am gobsmacked. Waos bread looks awesome, but I kind of felt a bit disbelieving. That it was THAT easy to harvest yeast. I thought there had to be a trick to it.
Thats pretty amazing.
Self sufficiency here we come! Sour dough and ordinary yeast bread can be made with out the commecrial companies "help" I have thought for a long time about how one would go about catching yeast that wasnt sour.
Thanks for replying Susan.
Do you plan to use the yeast water more often? Or are you happy to use instant (etc) yeast?
TGB
More than just bread blog.
http://holistichedonist.wordpress.com/
TGB, I also prefer not being tied to buying commercial yeast. Not sure why, as I am not a survivalist by any stretch of the imagination. I can't remember the last time I bought a loaf of bread, tho, and anything that's not made with sd starter tastes a bit strange to me now. There is a bag of ADY here, in the freezer, but really, I use only sd starter to make our daily bread. I'll certainly explore the fruit-water yeast more, 'cause it's fun. After ruminating on the water yeast, it shouldn't have been a surprise that it made the dough rise, but it was!
I've also begun making my own yogurt, using kefir to inoculate each 6-cup batch. Works beautifully. Hence the reference to needing a cow...that's a joke, don't any of you good people send me a cow! Or a goat! I live in the city and the city fathers wouldn't take kindly to livestock.
I do wonder how many of the 10 good 'bugs' in the kefir manage to multiply in the yogurt. Most yogurts in the States have just two bugs, some have up to six. Gotta get BillW interested in yogurt-making so he'll figure out all the intricacies!
You made reference to being concerned about Leuconostoc a while back. I found it interesting that the kefir I buy has Leuconostoc cremoris listed on the label!
Susan from San Diego
Hi, SUsan.
Looks yummy~Thanks for trying my recipe.
Yes, ,,I too prefer baking with yeast water.
Its flovor, crumb and crust....different from IDY bread.
Ah, I think you can make yogurt yeast water with your new yogurt~!
Enjoy.
Hi, wao...yesterday I baked my first wild yeast dough, I decided to make a loaf instead of rolls...it turned out fantastic, beautiful crust and crumb, large holes and very delicious...I took pictures, but I don't know how to shrink them so I can post them, yes, I know I've done it before ( http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/5872/b%E2%80%99s-five-layer-hidden-focaccia ), but a friend actually did it for me.
Today I mixed-up dough using wild yeast tea water, it smells wonderful. I refrigerated it & I'll bake it tomorrow night, because I want to take the loaf to work Tuesday. I refrigerated the first dough, also...it worked fine, just FYI.
I'm looking forward to the summer for fresh tomatoes so I can collect their yeast & try it.
I am so pleased and awed by the method, and I want to thank you again, wao, for this original post and all your subsequent help! I'll keep a watch on your site for more of your ideas & methods.
Take care! Beth
Yay!
It seems like you got a wonderful result from your original yeast.
I am very happy to see people trying and succeed:)
(yeah, some not-so-good results might occur time to time but that's ok, right?!)
You are managing time by using refrigerator, wonderful:)
Is the refrigerator fermented dough slightly more sour than non-refrigerated dough? I've heard that before so I'm curious..
You can shrink pictures easily here online if you are interested.
http://www.shrinkpictures.com/
I just peeled a kiwi, a kumquat, what was left of a few Chinese dates and a squirt of honey with water into a jar. Rather pretty. We will see what happens in a week.
After 3 days it was already fermenting and smelling great! Added a little more water and stirred it up. Cool!
On the 4th day I added some flour to some of the liquid and let it stand overnight.
On day 5, there were bubbles and an interesting sweet smell to the dough, also it was fermenting. Strained the yeast water and parked it into the fridge. Dumped the fruit -- starting to look questionable.
Today I decided to make a dough from the yeast water. Plan to bake in the morning.
Aliens landing from not far away: Day 3
Aliens after 24 hr. captivity in cool confinement: Day6
(afraid to taste it but it smells yeasty)
yeast water bread: 40% rye above Yeast water spelt below
I made a white wheat/spelt loaf following the directions for a small loaf only one small change, used only water for additional liquid and not 50/50 yeast water.
I was prepared for a long first proof, and I eventually shaped my little loaf and let it rise for a final proof. As I uncovered it I kept smelling essents of Soya sauce, strange. I baked it in a covered glass casserole for 35 min in a cold oven with convection, last 5 min open to crispen the crust.
The dough was white as a sheet when it went in and it came out brown, but when I cut open the loaf ....it is a fantastic rich orange brown ! WOW! I've got to try this with my rye flour and see if I can't get that extra dark rich brown colour. (if white bread comes out brown, what will the rye look like?) The loaf is very moist and has a soft crust and not sour. I've got yeast water and a wheat starter going.
Mini O
Very interesting outcome MiniO. You are the explorer. Yes, a three Musketeers tip of the hat to you.
Eric
After about a week in the fridge, I checked on my yeast water, sitting naked and turning into wine (Baccus would be proud) and thought to myself, "this stuff needs feeding. Now what?"
So I tasted it....not bad... I could sit back with over-ripe yeast water a fancy cocktail glass, grapes in my hair (not thinking about any headache to come) and put my elves to work dancing and making merry music but reality set in and I stirred it up, kept a tablespoon and added about 1/2 c (125ml) water and 6 ripe clean grapes. I did a good job of popping them first between my fingers and threw them in, covered them and back into the fridge. It's been about another week, and time to experiment again... No mold here. Smells like it's in a stage between mature sd and wine. Before I use i, I will feed it again and leave it out at room temp for about 8 hours.
Mini O
You've taken the yeast-water concept and made it your own. The bread looks wonderful!
Susan from San Diego
I took that week old squishy grape yeast water and after feeding it, did not dump it but mixed it 80ml to 100g spelt flour, and let it sit out (15°c) overnight, then I mixed it into a batch of cinn rolls adding 1/2 the yeast. I let it ferment and made my rolls. To make a long story short, I baked the cinn rolls on Monday evening and they are still edible. Normally they tend to dry out after a few days, but these are surprisingly soft. A big plus point for normal storage.
Thanks
Mini O
Hi, wao...I don't know if the bread was more sour from the refrigeration, because I've only tasted the one loaf...it was not sour and the flavor was delicious, and it was so moist!
Thanks for the link for the pictures, I'll try to work my way through it.
Take care! Beth
OK, wao...here goes, thanks to you I think I did it:
Hi, wao...
THANKS, AGAIN, WAO! Beth
...Wow!
I've put off doing the 'wild yeast water' thing for a while now...but after seeing that I am definitely several steps closer to taking the plunge.
Are those bits of tea leaf that i see in the bread, Beth? Please let us know about the taste. I'm fascinated!
Thanks Beth, Thanks Wao
Hi, Beth. Your bread lookｓ good!!
I like how your bread's crumb looks. I want to taste it ☆☆
oday I too baked something.
I used apple+raisin+apricot+apple juice yeast water.
It will be my breakdast tommrow :)
foolishpoolish...don't hesitate, it is so fun and rewarding, because there's that little side of you that can't believe this could actually work, so when you get, and actually eat your bread, it's like WOW, this is amazing...the taste is subtlety different than commercial yeasted or sourdough, maybe kind of fruity, but it really is indescribable, closer to sourdough, but milder...very delicious and amazingly moist!
I have such a profound respect for nature, because she provides so much, some, probably most is not obvious...like yeast water!
wao, I'd like to see your bread, you're maybe eating it right about now, or will be soon. Last night I started dried fig yeast water, it's already bubbly...thanks again for everything! Beth
You are making so many kinds of yeastwater now!
I used to have many jars too. It was fun.
Here is the picture of sweet bread from yesterday.
Thats it,
I am definitely going to try this.......as soon as I purchase more dried fruit.
What would you say works the best?
This is fascinating!
TGB
More than just bread blog.
http://holistichedonist.wordpress.com/
Hi, TGB...for me, it was the tea yeast water...that seemed to be the most active and the quickest...I also made raisin, fresh apple with dried cherry, and dried blueberry & cranberry...I have dried fig growing right now...I remember wao said raisins work the best....they all worked good for me...IT'S SO AMAZING, YOU'VE GOT TO TRY IT!
P.S. did you wear-out your new machine yet?...isn't it great????
Yes, that is bits of black tea in the dough...!
Take care! Beth
Wao, is it OK to leave the original fruit in the yeast water, it won't rot, will it? It still smells wonderful. Every few days I add a drop of honey and a few dried blueberries, I guess it's still OK...I want to use it for leavening some old recipes, instead of yeast...think it'll work? Take care! Beth
Sorry for the late response (I took 2 week off from work and went to small islands..)
Anyway, I usually keep my fruits in my jar and keep the jar in the refregirator.
Never got rotten fruits...so far...(maximum for 2 months)
You can replace commercial yeast with natural yeast water but the texture of the bread might change.
Ok, here is a dumb question...
If the yeast water is not used to leaven the bread, is it just for flavoring? What does the fruited yeast water bring to the bread?
IOW, why do it? :-) It sounds fascinating, but wondering what the point is exactly. If you want the flavor of the fruit, could you not just squeeze the fruit and put a bit of the juice in the loaf? Or is there something else?
Thanks!
The yeast water DOES leaven the bread - that's the neat thing!
I've still not tried it yet although I intend to one day soon - still have a lot of experimenting with sourdough on the cards first.
I've been reading about traditional italian natural yeast methods and was interested to find that yeast water (just fruit + water left to ferment) is used as a method to capture yeast (before developing further microorganisms in a sourdough-style using a flour+water based feeding process).
And they were Great! I just mixed yeast water and flour to make pancaky thick dough and let it sit about 6 hours at 75°F Made enough for 12 muffins or 2 cups. Covered it and it just perked away and I stirred it maybe three times. Didn't rise much. Mixed the recipe when the mixture started to smell sour. In the oven they really popped and one had a baby muffin grow out on the side! That's power! I'm a muffin midwife! Oh, and they were elderberry muffins this time. Made them this afternoon for coffee but most of them went off with the college kids. Literally steaming out the door.
I took the scant tablespoon of yeast water that was left and simply whipped in about 3/4 c. water and the guts from two very ripe kiwis and a teaspoon honey. Covered it and put it back into the fridge. It waits up to a week or more for me to use it. I like the idea of adding an acidic fruit, just seems logical.
Mini O'muffin
And that is what has me hooked. Got a brand new lactose intolerant in the family and she can tolerate breads and such made from yeast water. I do have to watch which fruits I use. Breads, rolls, muffins, stay moist a long, long time. I got a feeling that when
Thank you wao, excellent idea to post! Can't thank you enough!
Mini O
This link sounds like yeast water to me. Just appeared in Medical News Today. Susan from San Diego put me onto it.
Does renaming it "biotransformed" make it a new idea?
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/162716.php
"A toast (lift up your glass, please) to Grandma's Blueberry wine!"
Mini O Bio
Hi,
my water yeast is working perfectly, but I have some doubts.
1) how can I protect it from mould? I added 2 tablespoons of whey, will it suffice?
2) what kind of critters are contained in the water yeast? Surely the usual baker's yeast (caerevisiae saccaromiceti) is there, but what else? Are there fungi? Lactobacilli?
P.S. the coloring effect on bread is really amazing! I never made such a colored bread before ;-)
Thanks,
Nico
One way to protect it from mold/mould is to use it, or strain and refrigerate using it within a few days. Feed just a little of the yeast water adding more water and unmouldy fruit and/or skins (or honey) to keep it going. Keep equipment clean and containers loosely covered to keep out flies and bugs, glass lid, or plastic with a rubber band work well.
I don't know about whey so I can't answer. Nor do I know which beasties (there could be quite a few or a symbiotic group that) are raising and flavoring my bread, but it sure is fun and interesting. It wouldn't surprise me if the method presents an opportunity for water kefir to grow so watch your strainer if you're interested.
Mini
Thanks for you answers!
The bread I made yesterday didn't have any sourness, but it also lacked any flavor. Does the water yeast take time to develop the fruity flavor?
don't give off any flavours and so I stressed that too much. Sorry. The softness of the crumb is a major influence and the colors. This isn't sourdough so don't expect much sour. The next step of combining with flour would make a bigger flavour difference. And I suppose over time the flour fed starter will get sour.
Reading back up the threads, I had forgotten I turned mine into a spelt sourdough starter eventually. That in turn got mixed into my Austrian starter or vice-versa. Whether or not drinking my bubbly yeast water influenced that decision I cannot say.
Mini
I am fascinated with this concept and just made some grape jam from concord grapes I picked at my daughters new house so I have left-over seeds,skin remnants from milling the grapes.I am using a few tablesppons in about a pint of water to see what develops. I assume I'll get a light pink/lavender color to the crumb og the bread?
I love the peachy and orange color on MiniOven's loaf.So, what fruits will produce what colors? Does it depend on the amount of fruit pulp incorporated or is it all strained out?
Fun!
comes from raised levels of vitamin C, a known bread enhancer. Fermented fruit and vegetables have higher amounts of Vit C than their raw equivalents. :)
Thank you for your recipe!!
It sounds very good, Mariemamman. I will try it!!!
Happy baking,
Akiko
I tried your loaf twice. But I failed the first one because I overproofed the dough on the final day because I forgot the dough completely while it was at bulk fermentation. When I realized that I had to preshape the dough, it was deflated already.
The second one was successful. I made the dough from step1 to step 3 within a day because the dough was ready.( it rose almost 2.5 times in bulk) I was also afraid of the dough getting sour.. Is it sour if I follow your step? I put some seeds and capers in it with interest. I also added oil a little bit. I like the crumb and It is really a great method! Thank you, Mariemamman. :)
I toasted it and ate it with butter.. YUM!
Happy baking,
Akiko
Hi Wao,
I was looking at your blog earlier and noticed something called yogurt yeast but couldn't find more information on it. Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough, but I'm curious to know what you mean by it?