Is it possible to bake the following Reinhart recipe, from his Whole Grain Bread bk., p. 175, without using a rye sourdough starter? Yes, I know a starter is much better, but is it at all possible to work around that and still deal with the acidity of the rye flour and get a reasonable loaf of this bread?
Thanks.
Soaker
Single Loaf | Triple | |
Whole Rye Flour | 1 ¾ cups | 5 1/4 |
Water | 1 Cup | 3 Cups |
Salt | 1/2 tsps | 1 ½ tsps |
Vital wheat gluten (optional) | 4 tsps | 12 tsps |
Starter
Single | Triple | |
Rye mother starter | ½ cup | 1 ½ cups |
Whole Rye Flour | 1 2/3 cups | Almost 5 cups |
Water | ¾ cups | 2 ¼ cups |
Final Dough
Single | Triple | |
Soaker | Use all | Use all |
Starter | Use all | Use all |
Water | ¾ cups | 2 ¼ cups |
Salt | 5/8 tsp | 3 1/8 tsps |
Instant yeast | 2 ¼ tsps | 6 ¾ tsp |
Note: Forgot to add:
Whole rye flour | ¾ cups+ 2 Ts | 2 ¼ cups |
hey there, yes i'm sure its possible, just use a biga instead (ask me if you don't know what it is and i'll help you out) so instead of using normal milk, your going to want to use buttermilk or yogurt, because of the levels of acidity to control the enzymes that rye has which attacks the starches causing it to not rise so well leaving a denser loaf
if this dosen't make sense please feel free to either message me or just ask on here and i'm sure others and myself can help explain everything.
Many thanks for your assistance. You have before you the recipe I am using. So please advise where the biga is used as well as where and how much Yogurt is used. As you can see, no milk is called for in the Reinhart recipe.
Many thanks..
CountryBoy: I also own WGB...on p. 116, Reinhart talks about using a biga in place of a starter in the margins of the Seigle recipe...he suggests you add 1/4 tsp ascorbic acid (vitamin C) to up the acidity...the Transitional Rye on p 119 uses a biga and yogurt.
I have no idea what a rye biga would be like...your fermentation times might be shorter than with wheat biga...and your loaf will definitely be denser and more compact. My suggestion would be to take a biga recipe from one of the other recipes in the book and simply substitiute it for the starter. Your % of biga will be less than it would have been with starter, but only by about 2 oz. The resulting loaf will be slightly smaller. If you have made other breads from this book, you know the texture Reinhart is after and you can adjust for hydration as you are making the final dough.
If this is your first attempt from this book...do a transitional bread first. The textures take a bit getting used to , and my family have found the resulting loaves dense. (They enjoyed them in the winter, but summertime? They are more interested in lighter, french and italian style loaves).
This is all about playing with your food!
Windi
Philadelphia PA
Ok the Transitional Rye then on page 119 but I have two questions:
I didn't read thru the whole book this morning...was dashing out the door. There is a recipe for a transitional rye meteil (<50% rye) on p 178. for this recipe, the molasses and seeds are optional. Pretty much in the other recipes, Reinhart leaves the type of sweetener up to the baker, but with quantity adjustments depending on the type. You can simply leave the sweetener out (I would bet that part of it's function here is the acidity and the color).
In most of the recipes in WGB, Reinhart offers a choice between a refreshed starter (if you have one) or a biga, which simply needs an overnight sit in the fridge. The only appreciable difference between the poolish and the biga might be the hydration, and ultimately the final texture of your dough. (Maybe Reinhart is partial to Italian over French?!)
Making a biga is just as simple as making a poolish.
If the process seems awkward to you, I suggest you read the Chapters II and III. It gets a little confusing (just omit the stuff about the mash unless you make that bread) but the basics of starter and biga and combining them were helpful.
I like the breads in WGB, but the texture of the dough may take some getting used to. I have ended up with softer soakers/bigas than other posters report, but the final breads worked well.
Windi
Philadelphia PA
I meant, "combining the starter and the soaker" (not the starter and the biga). Heat affecting my brain!
Windi
Philadelphia PA
I went ahead and started the rye bread on page 178 tonight. Should know by tomorrow night how it worked out. I never have used yougurt before.
My tripled recipe came out fine for two good sized loaves.
I used the biga as suggested however I am going to try poolish instead next time for the reason that it is easier to mix. In Reinhart's WGB book he used biga and I have yet to see why, when using poolish results in a far easier mixing with the final dough.
Also, many authorities suggest that poolish might result in more sour than biga, although the jury seems to be out on that. Anyone?