I'm trying to up my sourdough quality... To that end I want to get a dough proofer and I'm going to be doing about 3,600g of dough to make four loaves. So that's 2kg of flour @ 80% hydration. Sometimes I will do 75% hydration too and then I'll use a bit more flour but I digress...
The dough proofer's inside dimensions are 270*239*370 MM. So I can't use a long shallow rectangular tub in that and would have to use a square Cambro or something like that. a 7.6L Cambro is 21.5 x 21.5 x 23cm. So that would fit...
With 3.6L of dough and a 30-50% proof it'd be up to the 5.4L mark...
My question is for those people that bulk in square Cambro's - how do you do coil folds in that with the steep sides? Is it easy enough? Or do you not bother?
My normal process would be to use a stand mixer for a little while without overdoing it. Then I'd normally do a strong stretch and fold, followed by a lamination 30 mins later early in the process and then at least 3 coil folds at 1 hour intervals before waiting 1.5 hrs and doing a preshape etc...
I just lift the dough from below and it pulls away from the sides as I lift. Then the fold is easy. If it doesn't detach at the first pull, then you get to stretch it upwards anyway and that's just as good.
One thing is that I use much lower quantities of dough, and your cambro may want to lift along with the dough. In that case I would just dump the dough onto the bench and do the folds there.
TomP
Up until now, when I make two loaves (half the quantity I'm going to be doing), I separate the dough early in the process and do all the coil folds in separate flatter rectangular glass containers. If I go this single cambro route and separate the dough after the bulk ferment then it's a narrower deeper vessel with a lot more dough. So I was worried it would be hard to lift it up and get it away from the sides because there doesn't seem much room to move. You might be right about having to do it on the bench however I was hoping not to do that because it's kind of annoying and messy having to do that three times - compared to what I currently do that is.
Use a container - big enough to hold to hold your dough - including proofing - and you should be good. Handling the dough - while not hurting anything - should be enough. I use 3 or 4 tools - scraper, container and water - and a cup if it's yeast - that's all. Enjoy!
I think a 7.6L or 8qt camsquare cambro container is big enough for 3.6kg of dough which would rise to about 5.4L perhaps before shaping... The thing that worries me is that it's narrow and deep when it comes to coil folds and I'm used to a wider shallower container. Someone suggested dumping the dough out and doing the coil folds. I was hoping I didn't have to do that because not sure how good it is to do that 3 or four times during the process.
the dough will just about reach the lid overnight. So I wonder about 3.6 kg for an extended Bulk... Might depend on how active your levain is? I generally do all my bulks in a shallower tub. I wouldn't even attempt to coil fold in that deep container.
Bonne chance
I'm only intending to do a 30 to 50% bulk in an 8L containter and then shape. So hopefully that part would be ok. The extended bulk will happen in the bannetons during the retard.
I have given up on the cambro idea and worked out I can use the dough proofer on its side and then I can have shallow containers - but again they will be two 4L containers so the volume will still add up to 8L.
For sandwich bread using ordinary yeast that doubles I will just use the oven to proof and I'll probably do it in the mixer bowl. I normally digitally set my oven to 30 degrees (its lowest temperature) and proof in there with instant yeast. I don't think that's critical like sourdough.
Whatever you are comfortable with is good. I don't bother with the folding thing anymore. And nothing wrong with a good mixing. Enjoy!
I do wonder about it - I am getting a spiral mixer so a decent mix at to develop the dough the beginning might be all it needs.
Whatever you choose will work - and if it doesn't - get another. The important thing is your comfort. The dough will handle itself. Enjoy!
I use a 3 L square Cambro. When I make Hamelman's Workday 100% Whole Wheat (formula and my notes at the link below)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F9_WtuDY5QgAXz8nKgQi6OLm_3lU6vc-8SCtTIXC9Qo/edit?usp=sharing
I do a lot of gluten-building on this 100% whole wheat dough at 85% hydration:
Here is a double loaf that I baked on Monday; the two of us have eaten most of it by Wednesday.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/eTQzDXjEE4aCwShx5
I don't have any problem doing the coil folds in the Cambro.
The dough looks very nice!
I have worked out I can put the incubator on its side and then I can get two larger flatter containers in. It's actually an incubator... I might still get a cambro at some point for other things.
https://www.bigw.com.au/product/reptile-incubator-intelligent-automatic-incubator-for-snake-python-lizard-and-gecko/p/9900034666?srsltid=AfmBOo…
I generally bake two regular size loaves or one double each weekend. Half of the product, once cooled, goes in the freezer. The two loaves or one double typically last the two of us just about a week.
May I ask how long it takes you to go through 4 loaves? Do you have a lot of mouths to feed? Or do you usually give some to friends? Or do you freeze most of it and bake just once a month?
I probably go through two large loaves of bread (500g of flour x 2 = 1000flour or 900g dough x 2 = 1800g dough) every week to 10 days. At the moment I can only do 2 loaves at once - my oven can fit two lodge combo cookers at once and my mixer can't do more than that anyway. So my plan is to double my batch to four large loaves... Freeze them and then bake half as frequently which will give me more time to do other things... Sometimes I make enriched milk bread or raisin/cinnamon loaf for toast and that just uses instant yeast. For those ones I'd still prove in my regular oven at a higher temp because they aren't as critical regarding fermentation. They are just a rise until doubled then put into pullman tins and baked when they are up near the lid of the tin level.
I do enjoy baking but having done it for our bread non stop for 10 years it'll be nice to free myself up a bit doing the larger quantity - since it's not much extra effort to do 4 loaves at once over 2 really. There are only two people in my household - just me and the wife!
Maybe a year ago, I splurged out on bannetons - oval and round for single and double loaves. Either way, a double batch of dough lasts the two of us about a week.
I am increasingly lazy so I lean more and more toward baking one double loaf rather than two singles. I love rolls and bialys but shaping 8 of them is a lot more work than 1 loaf.
I am looking forward to the spiral mixer too... That'll be a game changer I think. Nicer smooth dough and up to 5kg of dough... However the most I'll do in it is about 4kg for raisin loaf and 3.6kg for sourdough.
Yes well when you say a double batch of dough lasts you a week I gather you mean about 1.8kg of dough for two big loaves like I do? Yes that lasts us a week or just a bit longer depending on circumstances.
The best thing you can do is get a schedule going. It'll help the starter and the dough. Enjoy!
My hunch is that the value in a schedule come from these two factors:
Stanley Ginsburg in "The Rye Baker" recalls working with Jeffrey Hamelman when they both were teaching at the CIA (the Culinary Institute of America), Hamelman told him that the students were baking better bread than he was, because they fed their starters every day, and he fed his 3 times a week.
Ginsburg then says that for home baking hobbyists, feeding a rye starter once or twice a week will be adequate (sure a daily refresh is even better but who wants to spend the time and the flour).
I typically bake on the weekend so I feed my starter early Friday morning to be ready for a levain/sourdough/preferment Friday evening. I typically mix the dough on Saturday morning and go from there, baking Saturday afternoon or Sunday morning depending on the formula.
That said, we're both retired and we like to travel. Sometimes we're away for a month, even 5 weeks occasionally. When we get home, I feed the starter two days in a row, maybe three if needed, until the refreshed starter doubles in 8 hrs at 70 F, or triples in 12 hrs.
A few years ago before our first trip after I had a starter going, I doubled the size of the starter and dehydrated half of it when it was ripe Instructions at https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-HVYrEHyrFvjpOVSzBr9pqaSRIgvpkk9/view?usp=sharing. I think there are instructions at the King Arthur website as well. When we got home after an unusually long trip, I fed the starter in the fridge and followed the directions to rehydrate the dried starter. Both turned out OK. It might be prudent to do a double refresh and dehydrate and store the extra in a jar at room temp, just in case.