Panettone Progress 24'

It's been about a year since I posted my "first" panettone.  That was at the end of 2023 and in 2024, I set out to make panettone every week - that actually lasted a few months until I couldn't really manage it anymore.  I had to get creative, stashing the dough in the fridge if something came up, controlling fermentation with temperature or by moving sugar between the first and second doughs, even letting the second dough fully proof and putting it in the fridge to bake the next day.  I might have broken some rules, but my approach to making panettone has aligned more with how I'd approach making a regular sourdough loaf and less with the "rigid" panettone process you often read about.

Pasta Madre

I've been working a lot on my pasta madre.  Part of the reason I made so much panettone was to try and figure out this primo acidification issue.  After fermentation, the primo should be tripled with a pH just over 5.0 or even as low as 4.6, depending on who you ask.  My primo?  4.1 - 4.3.  Does that even matter?  I think so.  Higher acidity can affect the gluten, which can affect the crumb structure and the height of the final loaf, to name a few.  In any case, I guess I won't know for sure how much it matters until I fix it.

I use King Arthur Bread Flour for my pasta madre and it has never behaved like a typical PM.  I convinced myself that my starter was somehow special, that the enriched North American flour I was using wasn't suitable for a pasta madre, and that the pH readings would inevitably be different because of all of this.  I still think there might be something to that, but I'm no longer using it as an excuse when something doesn't go right - and in fact I did get it under control...sort of.

My pH values have never been right with this PM.  After a night's rest, where it should be 3.8 - 3.9, I would get 4.1.  After a hot refreshment, where you'd expect 4.1 I would get 4.3 - 4.6!  I couldn't help but think this was contributing to the acidification issue, so I wanted to sort it out.  I also vaguely remember reading somewhere that a primo with a very low pH could be caused by a PM that is too acetic. A lightbulb went on.

Since my original post here about my "Panettone Trouble", I have treated lactic acid as my mortal enemy when making panettone.  I understand its role and importance, but too much of it and the dough will fail, so I began doing everything I could to make my PM as acetic as possible - after all, an ugly or imperfect panettone was better than none at all.  Obviously, you can't completely eliminate lactic acid (and wouldn't want to), but I thought trying to do so would at least result in a more acetic balance than lactic and I wouldn't risk my dough turning to soup.  My dough never really failed with this approach, but perhaps I went too far in one direction.

PM Management

I never thought that I would be one of those people who says "only you know your past madre", but here I am, cautioning you against trying anything I'm about to explain because it doesn't entirely align with traditional thinking.  Listen to the professionals.  I have "broken" my PM, "killed" it so many times in order to figure some of this out (as simple/obvious as it may seem).  I've paid in tears (metaphorically - I try not to cry over bread).

Here is my original PM management from before I attempted to correct any of this:

• Night Rest - 1:1, 40% hydration, free, 18C for 16 - 24hrs.  resulting pH 4.1 - 4.2.
• Hot Refreshment - 2:1 (flour:starter), 45% hydration, free, 28C for 4.5 - 6hrs. resulting pH 4.3 - 4.6.
• Off Days - sometimes would go from night rest/maintenance right back into maintenance with no hot refreshment. I tried at least every few days to work in a hot 2:1 refreshment
• Production - hot 2:1 refreshment out of maintenance, then 1:1, then mix primo

My first goal was to get to the right pH values, focusing initially on the pH after the night's rest.  It's not that I think 3.8 - 3.9 is some magical range that "purifies" the starter (it might, I certainly don't know),  just that if I started that low, maybe I'd have a better chance of hitting 4.1 after a hot refreshment.  The issue was I was already sort of at the top of the temperature range and didn't know what else I could adjust to increase acidity within the same time frame.  I didn't want to go lower than 1:1 (meaning I didn't want to use less flour than starter), so I looked at other areas.  What would happen if I just left it to ferment longer during maintenance? I spend a lot of time in books and social media reading about this stuff and I haven't often heard of a night's rest that lasts longer than 24 hours, so I tried it and left it for ~48 hours.

After 48 hours, it was right where I wanted it, between 3.8 and 3.9!  This also corrected the hot refreshments. Starting with a lower pH did in fact help my warm refreshments land around 4.1 - 4.2.  I didn't love 48 hour maintenance though.  Sometimes, I see a window in my schedule and decide to bake, but that would be difficult with a 48 hour maintenance, so I looked at some other things I could change.

I was mixing my PM for maintenance at 40% hydration.  Why?  Because that's what it seemed like everyone else did.  It seemed to me that everyone was using lower hydrations for the night's rest and higher hydrations for warm refreshments.  Meanwhile my hands and pasta roller were crying. I know that fermentation is faster at higher hydrations.  Higher hydrations are also said to promote a more lactic balance.  This was exactly what I was looking for, so I tried it and it worked...sort of.

If I mix my PM at 45% hydration and let it fully rise at room temp, then put at 18C until the next day, the pH is usually about 3.9, or at least below 4.0.  I'm happier with how this PM is behaving as far as its acidity goes, but it has made zero difference in the mystery of the acidifying primo.

Here's the new routine:

• Night Rest- 1:1, 45% hydration, free, 18C. Rest at room temp (~22C) until fully risen, the ferment at 18C until the next morning.  Resulting pH 3.8 - 3.95
• Hot Refreshment - 2:1, 45% hydration, free, 28C for 4.5 - 6hrs. resulting pH 4.1 - 4.25
• Off Days - similar to what I was doing before.  When I don't have time to refresh or I am mixing the second dough and don't want to have to deal with my PM, I'll take it for the night's rest before fully risen and will leave it at 16C instead of 18C.
• Production - same schedule as before, but I'm finding it easier to land in 4.1 over consecutive warm refreshments if they're all 1:1. The initial 2:1 refreshment takes longer than I'd like to acidify (maybe this is a clue to further adjustments...)

In general, I've stared viewing my PM as "just" a starter.  I cut out all of the PM-specific things you often hear about - submerging the starter in water, tying it in a cloth, bathing it in sugar water, etc.  Now I just mix it, coil it (I still do this because I've grown accustomed to how it looks when it's ready), put it in a container, and then set it at whatever temp I want.  While the pH values are better now, I'm still wondering if it's "too acetic".

Again, if you're struggling with your PM, don't just do what I do.  The first handful of times I tried free management, my PM became a useless lump of dough that sometimes wound up in the trash.

Panettone

Given the acidification issue, which has been present in all of my bakes and will likely remain for some time, I wanted to see how far I could "push" the dough - how tall of a loaf could I get?  How much could I open the crumb?  How nice of a dome could I get?  While I was baking fairly regularly, I was always left with a loaf that had one visual "defect" or another - a little flat, a little short, a little lopsided.  Nothing major but how were people getting these perfectly round domes every single time?

Another challenge was the formula.  Most of last year I was using Giorilli's formula because it's held in pretty high regard and is said to be forgiving. Making it feels like a right of passage in a way.  The real challenge for me though was Roy's formula.  This never came out right and I was more often than not left with a "cakeattone" that , if I was lucky, had just enough strength to not fall when hung.  Honestly, it was always a disaster and closing the second dough with more water seemed insane. If you've made this recipe before, you might have skipped the water in the second dough, like I often did (didn't help lol).

Now, Roy's formula is all I make.  The first time I made it somewhat successfully and tasted it, I almost cried (almost.  I try not to cry over bread).  Roy's panettone was definitely in there somewhere.  Underneath all of the mistakes/issues, you could taste it.  What changed?  Nothing.  Everything.  I don't know.

I got my hands on this book you might be familiar with, called "Open Crumb Mastery" by Trevor J. Wilson.  It's a really interesting view of how all of the different steps throughout the baking process can affect the final crumb.  With these concepts in mind, I adjusted my panettone process to try and achieve some of the goals I mentioned.  Here's what it looks like...

Panettone Process

I'm happy to list the ingredients and ratios, but if you've gotten this far, you probably know Roy's formula or where to find it. In any case, the ingredients and ratios don't matter all that much.  I follow the same process regardless.  The most important ingredient is the probably the flour and I've been using Petra 6384 for panettone, though I still use KABF for all PM refreshments before the primo.

First, I prepare my PM for "production", as mentioned above.  After mixing the final refreshment, I prepare my primo ingredients by measuring everything out and putting it in the fridge.  I heat the water and sugar until the sugar is dissolved and then put that in the fridge.  Flour, eggs, and mixing bowl also go in the fridge.  Dough hook goes in the freezer.  Butter goes in the chiller at 18C.  I'm using a planetary mixer so I have to take precautions to keep the dough temp low.  Throughout the mixing process for both doughs, I even keep ice packs under my mixing bowl to keep the dough temp down.   The dough never goes over 22C while mixing.

When the PM is ready, I mix the primo.  First, mix the sugar syrup with the starter and flour for about 15 minutes.  Next, I add the eggs and mix until the gluten mesh is recovered, then the butter.  I leave this all to ferment at whatever random temperature I want for however long I need 🤣.  I usually finish this in the evening, so I'll leave it at room temp and will throw it in the fermentation box at maybe 24-25C until the morning.  I never time it - I just wait until it triples.  

Once tripled, I put the dough in the fridge for about 30 minutes while I prepare the ingredients for the second dough (I try to do this the night before).  Same thing as last time - whatever can be really cold goes in the fridge, butter goes in the chiller, and some stuff stays at room temp (like the orange paste and honey).

Then, I mix the second dough.  Just the usual here.  First, I mix the first dough with the flour for about 15 minutes, then I add the sugar and vanilla (I mix them together) and after it's dissolved, the honey.  After that, I add the yolks.  Once yolks are incorporated, I add the salt, followed by the butter.  After that, I add the water along with the orange paste.  I used to add the orange paste earlier in the process, but I had one dough fail when I did that.  Wasn't sure why, but the paste was pretty hard and the orange pieces were kind of coarse, so I thought maybe that damaged the gluten.  Now, I add the orange paste with the water, after the butter, to loosen it up so that it sort of "glides" through the dough rather than cuts through it.  Last but not least, the inclusions.

At this point, I actually bulk ferment the dough for a while.  I'll put the dough in a container in the fermentation chamber at about 25C for a while.  An hour or two.   Periodically, usually in 15-minute intervals at first and then 30-minute intervals later on, I fold the dough, just like you'd fold your sourdough during bulk ferment.

After that, I'll scale, preshape, and bench rest until the dough skins over.  Then final shaping and into the mold.  I try to handle the dough delicately at every point.  Then, I put the panettone in its case into the fermentation chamber at about 28C for...a while lol.  Again, I don't time it.  I don't even measure the distance from the top of the cup 🤷🏻‍♂️.  You'll hear people say to bake it when it's anywhere from 2-5 cm from the top, but I never know what they're measuring.  The peak of the dough?  The sides where it touches the case?  I dunno - those are very different.  I just make sure that the peak of the dough is still below the edge of the cup when I put it in the oven.  Usually, the dough is in contact with the case for about half the case height, maybe a little more.  I mostly just look for it to be puffy and jiggly like any other sourdough.

And here's the result

I think whatever openness you see in the crumb is mostly a result of the white chocolate.  I've been making a lot of raisin and candied orange panettone but in a pinch I just throw some chocolate chips in it.  There isn't much difference between this panettone and the ones below, except for the bench rest and the final proof.  This one was rested just until it skinned over and baked almost when the dough was at the top of the cup.

Below is a panettone from Christmas where I experimented baking quite early during the final proof. Also, I had to use the low molds for the first time because the tall molds were sold out - everyone is making panettone nowadays!  This one had a really long bench rest - about 1 - 1.5 hours.

As you can see, baking early causes the loaf to pull away from the case quite a bit.

Here's one I baked really low in the mold because it got late and I wanted to go to bed (panettone is somehow the enemy of sleep).  You can see at the bottom of the case that it is barely attached.  This one also had a fairly long bench rest, like the one above

They all taste great, but I still want to try and open it up some more and get it even taller, just to say I could lol.  I'm chasing something most people in my life don't understand 🤣.  Quite frankly I'm beginning to question it myself...