it is used for combining, folding and creaming ingredients, making cookie dough, cake dough, muffin dough, soda bread dough, batters, high percent rye bread dough, gluten free bread dough, mashed potatoes, etc. Anything that does not require whipping on high speed or gluten development (kneading). Basically, if by hand you would use a rubber spatula or a spoon to mix something, then in a mixer you would use this attachment.
Usually used on low or medium speed. Any tutorial on flat beaters would work for this particular configuration.
Actually, it is even sold as a genuine flat beater!
Flat beaters come in many configurations, some are empty, others have a number of rods inside, like yours.
The point is that they are in between a single thick rod (a hook or a spiral needed to pull and stretch gluten and to give it turns) and a whisk (many thin rods in different configurations - elongated, balloonlike, etc)
Yes, it is flat, but as I understand, these are specifically designed to develop gluten in high hydration and sweet doughs on a planetary mixer. Spiral dough hooks on planetary mixers are known for having difficulty with high hydration doughs - why they are so often discussed as the domain of spiral and dual-arm mixers.
If so, this is where they differ to the purpose of most flat beaters as you describe in your first reply post. "Anything that does not require whipping on high speed or gluten development"
The void in the centre holds most of the dough (so it does not over mix) and the edge tyne stretches small amounts of dough between the edge of the bowl. Once enough gluten forms the tynes then work very similarly to a spiral mixer on the ball of dough.
I can't imagine developing gluten with a whisk or a paddle, not even with a pastry knife (Hobarts's or Bosch's "empty" flat paddle) but maybe you will be able to. Experiment with it, I would love to see it work for you, of course.
We had a Hobart mixer in our restaurant in Montreal and my very first home mixer was KA professional series. "Sweet" dough in this flat beater's description refers to cookie and cake doughs, not to a pannetone or Danish dough, for example. It is impossible to knead and develop a batch of pannetone dough with a flat beater of any configiration.
Generally speaking, there are so many different strategies to mix a batch of dough with or without gluten development that a chosen method may depend on one or several attachments in the same mixer. Some stages of mixing might require an attachment for whipping the liquid phase another - for folding or kneading the soft or stiff phase.
Time needed to develop gluten depends on the strategy and on the flour (or flour mix) used and on the overall formula which indicates the stage of gluten development. Obviously it takes less time to give dough 600 turns in a mixer (to achieve the initial stage of gluten development as for the baguette dough) than 900-1200 turns (medium stage) or 1800-2000 turns (maximum gluten development as in sandwich bread or burger buns dough).
High hydration doughs that require gluten development as in ciabatta, pinsa or focaccia dough for example are usually mixed in two steps. First, a stiffer dough is mixed and kneaded to the desired stage of gluten development with a hook or a spiral attachment, then the remaining water is slowly added as you continue to knead it. These are stages for pinsa romana dough mixing in a two-speed mixer, for example
1) Pour 80% of the water and mix at speed 1 until the flour and the yeast is well mixed, then switch to speed 2 for about 8 minutes.
2) Add salt (the dough’s temperature must be between 16°C and 19°C) and mix
3) Slowly pour the rest of the water. Total mixing time is 20min.
Hello, I read everything that was written in this thread and I was just wondering. Are you saying that Hobart was just selling a beater called a sweet dough paddle as a gimmick and it was just them lying to people & trying to get them to spend extra money? Or did you not know that Hobart specifically sells a sweet dough paddle in addition to their flat paddle beaters? I'm just very curious because Hobart has been selling them for their commercial mixer since the 1920s at least, most likely earlier but if that's just them trying to scam us I'd really like to know. Since you seem very knowledgeable about the subject, & this particular point was not clear to me.
I was just looking or a video of them in action to compare how they work to how one of my beaters is working. I think the smallest I have seen in the Hobart sweet dough paddle versions is 30qt - although I did come across a step down version for a 30qt so it was probable 12qt.
I am curious if the sweet dough paddle size cut off is due to the bends in the paddle not assisting below a certain bowl size.
Always interesting to stumble across a topic/detail that has so little on the web.
I am curious if the sweet dough paddle size cut off is due to the bends in the paddle not assisting below a certain bowl size.
That really can't be true based on the evidence. And the evidence is that Hobart at one time made them for every mixer even down to the n50. I've seen them in old catalog. I'm actually actively looking for a Hobart C10 or a c210 mixer which use a 10 quart Bowl. In my research a few years back I came across a owner's manual which was just a few pages that somebody sent me. It also gave a list of the attachments and that's when I first found out about the sweet though paddle. I actually looked at all the different ones and they're all slightly different especially the ones that you see for sale on ebay. Even though they claim to be a hobart, the 20 quart ones look similar but kind of different and the only one that looks identical to the sketch that was in the owner's manual for the 10 quart C10 mixer I believe was the 30 quart one. One kitten infer based on all that that is pretty much Supply and demand. Hobart even used to make a pastry knife for their 5-quart and 50 model but was discontinued in the 70s. Again it was just not selling. It's ironic when they went for their experimental hl-6 that they included a pastry knife along with it in the original box. Yet they have not brought back a 5-quart pastry knife. That's been done by the Dutch company that actually makes him for pretty much any size Hobart or KitchenAid mixer now.
Anyway I'm digressing, basically I believe it just Supply and demand. When the Bean Counter see that they're not making enough profits they discontinue something and don't sell it anymore. And probably don't reintroduce it in the market when demand increases because the cost of retooling back for that size doesn't make sense to them. Because even though there may be demand Hobart has to offer it at a acceptable price to the consumer or even the commercial user. And if it's too expensive, even if it's demand for it it won't sell. N n
What size and kind of mixer do you have if you don't mind me asking? I currently have 4.5 quart KitchenAid and I don't think a sweet dough paddle would make any bit of difference on a small level. Or even if it was the five. But I do hope and plan on getting a 10 qt or larger soon. I was about to make a deal with somebody for vintage C10 but somebody just put on marketplace, closer to me, a model A200 Hobart for almost the same price.
So either the C210 or C10. As far as I know, those are the only two old cast iron 10qts.
Very cool. Cuz you're all these doors about half a dozen different people in the past two years I've picked up one of these for less than a hundred bucks. Best I could find is one for $350 just a bowl & dough hook.
Hi, this is called flat beater,
it is used for combining, folding and creaming ingredients, making cookie dough, cake dough, muffin dough, soda bread dough, batters, high percent rye bread dough, gluten free bread dough, mashed potatoes, etc. Anything that does not require whipping on high speed or gluten development (kneading). Basically, if by hand you would use a rubber spatula or a spoon to mix something, then in a mixer you would use this attachment.
Usually used on low or medium speed. Any tutorial on flat beaters would work for this particular configuration.
It's beautiful! Looks very antique.
mariana thanks for the reply.
These sweet dough attachments apparently act very differently to a flat beater.
Just as with a pastry knife, the missing inner struts mean the beater moves the dough in a fundamentally different way to a normal flat beater.
Actually, it is even sold as a genuine flat beater!
Flat beaters come in many configurations, some are empty, others have a number of rods inside, like yours.
The point is that they are in between a single thick rod (a hook or a spiral needed to pull and stretch gluten and to give it turns) and a whisk (many thin rods in different configurations - elongated, balloonlike, etc)
Yes, it is flat, but as I understand, these are specifically designed to develop gluten in high hydration and sweet doughs on a planetary mixer. Spiral dough hooks on planetary mixers are known for having difficulty with high hydration doughs - why they are so often discussed as the domain of spiral and dual-arm mixers.
If so, this is where they differ to the purpose of most flat beaters as you describe in your first reply post. "Anything that does not require whipping on high speed or gluten development"
The void in the centre holds most of the dough (so it does not over mix) and the edge tyne stretches small amounts of dough between the edge of the bowl. Once enough gluten forms the tynes then work very similarly to a spiral mixer on the ball of dough.
I can't imagine developing gluten with a whisk or a paddle, not even with a pastry knife (Hobarts's or Bosch's "empty" flat paddle) but maybe you will be able to. Experiment with it, I would love to see it work for you, of course.
We had a Hobart mixer in our restaurant in Montreal and my very first home mixer was KA professional series. "Sweet" dough in this flat beater's description refers to cookie and cake doughs, not to a pannetone or Danish dough, for example. It is impossible to knead and develop a batch of pannetone dough with a flat beater of any configiration.
Generally speaking, there are so many different strategies to mix a batch of dough with or without gluten development that a chosen method may depend on one or several attachments in the same mixer. Some stages of mixing might require an attachment for whipping the liquid phase another - for folding or kneading the soft or stiff phase.
Time needed to develop gluten depends on the strategy and on the flour (or flour mix) used and on the overall formula which indicates the stage of gluten development. Obviously it takes less time to give dough 600 turns in a mixer (to achieve the initial stage of gluten development as for the baguette dough) than 900-1200 turns (medium stage) or 1800-2000 turns (maximum gluten development as in sandwich bread or burger buns dough).
High hydration doughs that require gluten development as in ciabatta, pinsa or focaccia dough for example are usually mixed in two steps. First, a stiffer dough is mixed and kneaded to the desired stage of gluten development with a hook or a spiral attachment, then the remaining water is slowly added as you continue to knead it. These are stages for pinsa romana dough mixing in a two-speed mixer, for example
1) Pour 80% of the water and mix at speed 1 until the flour and the yeast is well mixed, then switch to speed 2 for about 8 minutes.
2) Add salt (the dough’s temperature must be between 16°C and 19°C) and mix
3) Slowly pour the rest of the water. Total mixing time is 20min.
mariana
Thanks for that info. Very helpful.
Hello, I read everything that was written in this thread and I was just wondering. Are you saying that Hobart was just selling a beater called a sweet dough paddle as a gimmick and it was just them lying to people & trying to get them to spend extra money? Or did you not know that Hobart specifically sells a sweet dough paddle in addition to their flat paddle beaters? I'm just very curious because Hobart has been selling them for their commercial mixer since the 1920s at least, most likely earlier but if that's just them trying to scam us I'd really like to know. Since you seem very knowledgeable about the subject, & this particular point was not clear to me.
Hi Danny92
I was just looking or a video of them in action to compare how they work to how one of my beaters is working. I think the smallest I have seen in the Hobart sweet dough paddle versions is 30qt - although I did come across a step down version for a 30qt so it was probable 12qt.
I am curious if the sweet dough paddle size cut off is due to the bends in the paddle not assisting below a certain bowl size.
Always interesting to stumble across a topic/detail that has so little on the web.
That really can't be true based on the evidence. And the evidence is that Hobart at one time made them for every mixer even down to the n50. I've seen them in old catalog. I'm actually actively looking for a Hobart C10 or a c210 mixer which use a 10 quart Bowl. In my research a few years back I came across a owner's manual which was just a few pages that somebody sent me. It also gave a list of the attachments and that's when I first found out about the sweet though paddle. I actually looked at all the different ones and they're all slightly different especially the ones that you see for sale on ebay. Even though they claim to be a hobart, the 20 quart ones look similar but kind of different and the only one that looks identical to the sketch that was in the owner's manual for the 10 quart C10 mixer I believe was the 30 quart one. One kitten infer based on all that that is pretty much Supply and demand. Hobart even used to make a pastry knife for their 5-quart and 50 model but was discontinued in the 70s. Again it was just not selling. It's ironic when they went for their experimental hl-6 that they included a pastry knife along with it in the original box. Yet they have not brought back a 5-quart pastry knife. That's been done by the Dutch company that actually makes him for pretty much any size Hobart or KitchenAid mixer now.
Anyway I'm digressing, basically I believe it just Supply and demand. When the Bean Counter see that they're not making enough profits they discontinue something and don't sell it anymore. And probably don't reintroduce it in the market when demand increases because the cost of retooling back for that size doesn't make sense to them. Because even though there may be demand Hobart has to offer it at a acceptable price to the consumer or even the commercial user. And if it's too expensive, even if it's demand for it it won't sell. N n
What size and kind of mixer do you have if you don't mind me asking? I currently have 4.5 quart KitchenAid and I don't think a sweet dough paddle would make any bit of difference on a small level. Or even if it was the five. But I do hope and plan on getting a 10 qt or larger soon. I was about to make a deal with somebody for vintage C10 but somebody just put on marketplace, closer to me, a model A200 Hobart for almost the same price.
My main mixer is one of the Hobart cast iron 10qts.
So either the C210 or C10. As far as I know, those are the only two old cast iron 10qts.
Very cool. Cuz you're all these doors about half a dozen different people in the past two years I've picked up one of these for less than a hundred bucks. Best I could find is one for $350 just a bowl & dough hook.