This is 80% whole dark rye from CM, 10% type 110 wheat, and 10% bread made with new sourdough starter raised and maintained @ 82-85°F, not even two weeks old.
Four stage process was used: freshening, basic sour, fermented rye scald with 0.1g of fresh yeast per 100g of all flour in the bread, final dough. All fermentations were done at temperatures not lower than 82°F.
I liked this bread already at the final dough stage, which, to be honest, never happened before: for the first time, the aroma wasn't anything like unpleasant earthy and sour smells of a raw rye dough but of something fruity, sweet, and definitely edible. The final product was just that: a balance of sweetness, fruity aroma, and mild acidity (probably from lactic acid) -- in the same league with my CLAS loaves.
I just followed the advice from an experienced rye baker: "When making rye sourdough, never let your temps go lower than 82°F".
Next time will ferment longer or make sure the starter is a bit more active or strong.
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That is one fantastic rye bread. And since you're chasing that lactic acid flavour is your starter very high hydration? If not then getting it into the range of 125% plus the warm temperatures you're already fermenting at should be the perfect combination.
Superb.
Thank you, Abe! I keep it at 100% hydration and 82-85°F. The smell of this new spontaneous starter is definitely more pleasant compared to my previous "room temperature" starter. If it develops a bit more rising power and if it stores well outside the incubator then it's a keeper.
82-85°F temperature. See how much it improves. Hamelman is very popular as you know and he often uses a 125% hydration starter/levain and the flavour of his breads are excellent. It's worth a try. Starters can be manipulated and it certainly sounds like you've hit upon a good technique.
Your recipe is not far off from a Borodinsky. However instead of yeast in the scald the scald is done minus any leavening agent and put together the same time as the basic sour. Once the basic sour is mature and the scald cooled then the basic sour gets mixed into the scald and fermented till ready. After which the final dough is put together.
I'm loving that crumb. Looks so inviting.
Yes, I did something similar except that the basic sour was fermented with a bit of yeast for a while and then, when ripe, mixed into the scald for overnight fermentation. I followed this procedure with only slight modifications. Only baker's 0.1% of fresh yeast is used, which have probably given a boost to this relatively weak new starter or even added to the flavor. Will try 125% hydration. Thank you for the tip, Abe!
Was wondering if you would have a feeding schedule in mind aimed at improving the rising power of a rye starter at such warm temperatures? I feed it 1 part ripe starter to 3 parts of 100% hydration fresh dough every 24 hrs when just maintaining and every 12 hrs several times when preparing for baking.
UPD: Brushing up on a little my rye starter skills just found in my Hamelman (thank you for the reminder) that 150% hydration @ 78°F for 6 hrs is beneficial for the yeast, and 100% @ 85°F for 4 hrs for lactic acid production. And according to the book, starters can be stored at room temperature for weeks after full dehydration, which hopefully would work for CLAS, too.
That bread looks spot on, I also eyed that recipe recently. Did you also add caraway, like in the video?
Regarding starter maintenance and activation, check out this page: http://brotgost.blogspot.com/2016/10/itogi1.html (I hope google translate does a decent job with it - there is a button to choose the language on top right of the website). It's interesting, apparently the recommended way to store rye starter in the fridge is at 150% hydration, and then during refreshments the hydration goes lower and lower. Here are some spreadsheets to calculate refreshments in different schemes, I've used the 3-stage one once with great success: http://brotgost.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html
Quick check of the google translate: "uncooked" bread means without scalding. "Custard" bread means with scalding.
Thank you, Ilya! I used a mixture of coriander and caraway with three segments of star anise, ground and ~1/2 of the suggested total weight, increased the salt, and reduced the molasses/malt.
Appreciate the references. This new warm temp starter is a keeper. Will definitely have to find a way to store starters long term because maintaining them properly is quite a chore and not worth it when baking only occasionally. The simplicity of Hamelman's method is appealing though: dehydrate, store at RT for up to two months, bring back to life a few days before bake.
"Custard bread" sounds delicious.
Only keep a small amount then before using give it a feed or two at warm temperatures and in no time it'll be ready to use. It'll quickly build up the lactic acid profile. Much easier than drying it out each time and reviving it.
Hi,
I have frozen rusbrot starters, even his solod scalds!
They have all done their job upon thawing and no refresh.
xx
This is the same recipe with the same new starter a week or so after the first loaf. The flours are different: 15% medium rye, 65% whole dark rye, 20% 110 wheat.
The starter seemed to be more robust this time raising the dough a bit faster. The bread feels lighter and softer, too.
For some reason, this loaf has a more uniform crumb without the obvious denser layers at the bottom and the four sides touching the bread form, as in many loaves before. My guesses are: a stronger starter, longer proof after shaping, not pressing the dough down too much in the form, shorter initial roasting at 450°F.