Hello everybody, this is my first topic and I'm happy to now be a part of the bread baking community here as well!
Hopefully I can get help here - because I'm desperate! So here's the deal:
I've started baking bread and baking with sourdough starter about half a year ago and it has really enriched my life and was basically my gateway drug to fermentation. I lived in Finland just until last month, then I moved to Germany.
In Finland, baking baguettes (and other breads) with my sourdough starter (his name is Hercules btw) always worked tremendously. I replaced the yeast in the original recipe with starter and it worked just as well.
Here's the recipe I'm using:
- 100% wheat flour (about 10-12% protein, depending on the brand)
- 70% water
- 2% salt
- 10% starter (50/50 water/flour), equals about 0,4% bakers yeast
- Short mix
- Bulk fermentation for 3 hours with 1-2 folds
- Pre-shape, rest for 20 min.
- Final shaping, proof for 45 min.
- Score and steam, bake at 230°C/450°F for about 22-24 min.
(for anyone interested, I'm using a recipe from Michel Suas' Advanced Bread and Pastry - amazing book!)
Now keep in mind that this recipe worked every single time I used it in Finland. It didn't fail once and I always got amazing baguettes with beautiful crust and open crumb. Even with different flour brands, different weather and other conditions it always worked. I could change the ratios slightly, could use warmer or colder water, it always succeeded beautifully.
So far, so good.
So now I move to Germany and take my starter with me. I try the recipe again and it fails: the baguettes go as flat as they can be. I thought "Alright, maybe Hercules is stressed, probably needs a couple of days and bakes to get used to his new environment."
After a few weeks, the baguettes still come out flat. They still taste amazing, but keep going flat. So I start testing which of the ingredients or processes might be the reason. I always changed only one element per batch, so I can see the individual effects. So far I tested following elements to eliminate several possibilities:
- different wheat flour brands (protein between 10-12%)
- different water (German tap water is pretty hard, so I tried softer, glass-bottled water)
- different salt (German salt is often iodized, so I changed to sea salt)
- autolyse/no autolyse
- longer mixing time (I use a hand mixer)
- shorter bulk fermentation (since it's pretty warm in Germany atm)
- shorter final proof (same reason, warm weather)
- longer bulk fermentation (maybe the starter is slower or weaker for some reason?)
- doubling the starter amount (same reason, starter maybe weak)
- lowering/raising the oven temperature
Now, none of those changes worked, the baguettes still come out flat and I'm running out of ideas. Since I changed the country, it always failed. The problem shouldn't be Hercules, since he is super active and bubbly and I always use him when matured best. I even checked if there is any major air pressure or above sea level difference between my Finnish and German home, but no.
The only thing that kinda worked (but only slightly better) was 2,5x starter amount + 1,5x bulk fermentation time + 1,5x final proof time. But can changing the country affect the baking process that much? As I said, I could play around with ratios and temperatures quite freely in Finland and it still succeeded. So this shouldn't affect the breads that much, right?
I would love to hear your suggestions, tips and solutions and would be incredibly thankful for any help! :))
Sorry, I don't have any suggestions at the moment -- but I am wondering, is it only baguettes that are coming out flat? Or are other breads (boules, etc.) similarly affected?
Honestly haven't tried that yet, I was too busy with moving and work. The baguettes I can make in a few hours, but other breads involve more time that I currently don't have. But soon I do, will try that then, thanks :)
But I imagine they will be affected similarly since they have similar ratios. Except for starter amount, but increasing that in the baguettes didn't help much either
got a picture of the bag?
Also try reducing the water, drop down to 65% or even 60% and see if it helps.
Currently its organic type 550 flour from Bauckhof (11% protein). Type 550 is supposed to be good for baking bread because of slightly increased ash content. But I'm switching brands quite often since I go to many different supermarkets and not every one has the same brands. But I try to stick to similar "specs" (ash content, protein).
Will try the reduced hydration. Its pretty humid here, so that might already do it. Thank you! :)
quite a few complete baking mixes. Is it only flour or are there other ingredients?
Its just organic wheat flour, I try to keep my breads as simple as possible.
Will also try upping the ash content, thanks :)
Try a room tempiture bulk ferment until jusy about doubled. Afterthat retard overnight. after about the first hour or so of retardation, shape your baguettes and continue the retard for total of about 12 hrs. Bake straight out of the oven in your usual way.
Baking, tell me about your ovens. Are they both the same type of heat source? Ie: electric or gas? Fyi gas ovens are a little more tricy when it comes to providing the required stream.
Try a room temperature bulk ferment until just about doubled. After that retard overnight. after about the first hour or so of retardation, shape your baguettes and continue the retard for total of about 12 hrs. Bake straight out of the refigerator in your usual way.
Baking, tell me about your ovens. Are they both the same type of heat source? Ie: electric or gas? Fyi gas ovens are a little more tricky when it comes to providing the required stream.
Alright, so: bulk ferment until doubled - retard in fridge for one hour - shape - retard in fridge for another ~11h - right? Will try, thank you! :)
I'm pretty sure they are the same type, electric convection ovens (gas is pretty unusual here). In my old one 230°C/450°C worked fine, so it should in the new one as well...
Perhaps the dough is simply fermenting faster than expected, leading to over-fermented and flat loaves.
Maybe.
Paul
Maybe, its about 25-28°C room temperature (if my thermometer is accurate. So I shortened the BF by 30 min. and final proof by 20 min....still flat. Maybe even shorter, at least the final proof?
When it is this warm at room temperature, take the temp of your dough as you also note how it is fermenting. The past week here in my house it has not gotten below 27C inside, and my bulk ferments that are usually 6 hours are now at about 4 hours.
the problem based on what I hear from my family there and also
here in UK it has been crazy and affecting my baking...So I tend to agree with Paul on this....
There are a number of amazing online places that you can buy flour in Germany and I try to forward a list when I have a moment... Kat
for long sourdough fermentations. Try also upping the ash content, perhaps combining half and half with a 700 flour or even a 900 ( about) for more acid buffering in the dough. You can get longer play time without the dough falling apart.