Hi all, this is my first post after my introduction. Apologies in advance if this has been asked elsewhere, I’ve looked but not found.
This question is in fact the reason I decided to join this forum.
Ive read topics from people requesting that their loaves are diagnosed, and I have seen some amazing replies. To me it is baffling that so much detail can be analyzed simply by looking at the crumb.
I wish to be able to carry out such diagnostics on my own, so I therefore ask for some guidance.
What does one look for to see whether, for example,:
- Bulk is too long or too short
- Froofing is too long or too short
- The excessive/insufficient fermentation happened at the bulk or proofing stage.
- Autolyse is to long or too short
- The gluten is Underdeveloped or overdeveloped
- THere are issues with shaping
- Oven is too hot/cold/wet/dry
- Cooking time is to long/short
If anybody can answer this, or point me to a resource that explains this, I’d appreciate it. Pictures and examples would be great.
Hi Dreamer, I think those answers come from experience. And lots of bad bakes.
“we learn more from our failures than we do from our successes...”
If you post your bakes, we can troubleshoot and tell you why we believe it is so.
Dan
is post pics of our bakes, esp. the harder ones or ones we had trouble with and ask for comment. Gradually you learn how to assess this. And of course it depends on the bread. So each of your questions would have separate answers depending on what kind of bread you wanted and the recipe and so on. Grab a copy at your library of Hamelman's book titled BREAD. Has tons of information in it.
hester
Hester and others are right. Besides experiencing the mistakes, you need a comprehensive book, and by far the most instructive and easy to follow one, that has equally masterful and varied recipes, is Hamelman's Bread. Between this and other sites and that book, you will cut your learning time dramatically and become proficient in short order.
... of learning to spot all the possible mistakes: teach a baking class.
Not only would you watch the classic mistakes happen repeatedly, you'd also discover gaps in your own knowledge, and experience different ways of thinking about things.
... could be, how to spot things like this without waiting for experience?
Such as a handy picture gallery of what can go wrong?
I agree, of course that would be great, but I think what we really see the experts doing is not merely IDing faults based on one picture. They can't do it either. What they are doing (I think) is correctly imagining the steps that led to the picture we're seeing; in other words, they're able to guess the context correctly, most of the time.
Without context, a picture of some bread is just a picture of some bread. And figuring out contexts comes from experience.
I am sorry that no one can give you concise answers that you are looking for. I will muddy the water even more , many here are trying to get the best possible loaf in terms of taste, texture and appearance . There are numerous times someone posts a photo of a loaf asking what they could have done differently, and they get many responses saying " I wish I could have baked that" because in truth it was a very good looking loaf.
I agree with the others that there is no magical way to diagnose many of the things you mention- other than oven temp . For oven temp, if the outside is burned before the inside is done, the oven was too hot, if the outside is pale, and the inside is completely cooked, the oven was probably too cold. For most of the others, they are related - if you overdo the bulk ferment, then even if you do every other step right, the final loaf will not have an ideal oven spring. At the same time, if you did everything picture perfect up to the shaping , and did the shaping wrong, you will not get an ideal oven spring.
My two suggestions are first, start with taste and don't get too worried about the look. I can bake a dough when it has completed overproofed, and it will come out more like the shape of a flying saucer than any photo you will see here. I may apologize for the appearance to my friends, but they still like the taste.
As to texture and appearance, keep as many notes as you can of every detail of a bake - including room temperature, time in bulk and final proof, etc. Then come back and describe what you did, and what part of the result you were unhappy with, and you will get info - such as increase, or decrease, hyrdration.
Thank you all for your answers. I appreciate that diagnostics are complex and dependent on many factors, and thus impossible to reduced to a few simple guidelines. Baking is a complex process. I guess that is part of the charm.
A new post with pictures are coming when my next bread is done.
... of sourdough, and of baking in general, is a bit like having a lifelong friend who's loyal and brilliant but also "difficult" and a little crazy. You have to do your best to accommodate the flaws and the seemingly-illogical demands if you're going to be his friend, because he's not going to change his ways. You have to learn what "makes him tick", rather than trying to tell him how to be.
'Been there, done that, got the t-shirt'.
As everyone has said... I can help diagnose because I've made all the mistakes myself. Practical beats theory so get baking and you'll soon learn.
... might be the article you can reach via the link below. Also, keeping notes detailing amounts and types of ingredients, methods, times, temperatures, etc., for comparing to outputs over time may provide the basis for analysis and remedial action. In this regard I am on the side of those who agree that "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results". Good luck!
https://www.seriouseats.com/2014/11/troubleshoot-bad-bread-messed-u-loaf.html
That link is absoluety perfect for the question. I’ve seen that link before, but forgot about it. I now have it bookmarked. If only I can remember that.
Danny
... your cheque's in the post!
This is a great link, thanks!
I wonder if you think everything rings true/there is anything to add for 100% wholegrain loaves?