Hi – been baking a 1lb wholemeal loaf every week for some years now in my Panasonic machine (can’t remember the model, sorry) and, despite using exactly the same recipe every time (13oz Allinsons very strong wholemeal, 3oz Allinsons very strong white – Allinsons Easy Bake yeast, sugar, lemon juice, salt, olive oil), the degree of rising is unpredictable between batches.
I always end up with an edible loaf – don’t get me wrong. But the height and texture vary a lot, apparently between packets of flour. When it rises very high (a bit too high, with a “bubble” under the crust), the texture is more stretchy and generally pleasant than when it’s an inch or two lower, and more solid.
As all other factors are constant, I speculate that the gluten content varies a lot between packets of flour. I asked Allinsons, but sadly got a rather inane reply about my yeast being out of date – (a) it isn't; (b) even if it were, how would that cause variability between batches using the same yeast? Sigh…
Do you think I’m right about the gluten? If so, is there any way I can tell before I actually bake? If it’s going to be a “high riser”, I can drop it a little by reducing the proportion of white flour, and vice versa.
Thanks
And same packet of yeast. Bit of a puzzler I agree. if it wasn't rising properly I'd say add in a touch of lemon juice. This will help with a poor batch of flour. Your yeast could degrade overtime so even through it's the same batch perhaps test a little before using by proofing a little in some sugar water to see how it reacts. You're using the same strength flour so the gluten shouldn't vary. I'd understand if you switch your flour but this isn't the case. You'll know how strong it is by the protein content on the nutrition label. It won't give you the exact gluten in the flour buts it's a good indicator. Another thing to think about it changes of temperature in your kitchen. Your machine should regulate this though but I suppose it can have some effect. Perhaps instead of calling Allinsons try calling Panasonic?
Yes I use the tins of Easybake yeast, and I can get a "low" loaf even with a brand new tin. Always a tablespoon of lemon juice.
I'll check the protein content, thanks, that's a useful tip - assuming they don't just print an average value on all the packs...
I remember speaking to Allinsons on the phone 3 or 4 years ago the first time this happened, and the guy did say that there is variation in gluten depending on times of year etc. But you're right - it may be that the machine isn't controlling the temperature properly. I can't think of any way of checking that other than replacing it :-(
There was an issue with flour due to bad weather. The advice Panasonic gave was to add a teaspoon of lemon juice to correct this problem.
I'm just wondering if it's worth it to miss the teaspoon of lemon juice out if there is no problem. To be honest I cannot see how adding it in anyway would be detrimental but just for the sake of experiment and trial and error. So here's what I would do.
1. Check the yeast to make sure it's healthy.
2. Be careful to measure the salt correctly and make sure you keep the salt and yeast separate when adding the ingredients.
3. Try and keep your ingredients an even temperature (preferably room temp) and place the machine in the same area of the kitchen.
4. Miss out the lemon juice for now and see what happens.
Let me know how it goes.
P.s. while a little lemon might have been beneficial in the actual dough I'd have kept that separate from the yeast as well just like the salt. Adding the ingredients in the special order as advised to do is important.
Ummm… should say I’ve been brewing and making bread for about 40 years, and have always found it works better with lemon juice when trying to bake wholemeal – yeast seems to prefer slight acidity. It’s been many years now, but when I didn’t use lemon juice, I had to use nearly 50/50 wholemeal and white flour.
It’s been happening on and off for 3-4 years, regardless of how new the tin of yeast is, so I don’t think that’s an issue – anyway, dried yeast shouldn't deteriorate in a few weeks from opening.
I do measure the ingredients carefully, but have experimented too, and found that adding a bit more or a bit less salt or sugar has no noticeable effect – not what I would have expected, but there you are…
The machine hasn’t moved in 3-4 years! Neither have the ingredients.
Do you bake wholemeal loaves in a machine yourself?
Thanks
Yes, a little lemon juice should only be beneficial. Yeasts do like it slightly acidic. But I've learned in baking to never assume anything. I like experimenting because I can :)
So the yeast should definitely be fine. The machine hasn't moved. You've been doing this for a long time (much longer than me) and it's just the past 3-4 years the results have been inconsistent.
How much sugar do you put in? And how much have you varied it to try and get different results? Too much sugar might inhibit yeast activity but then again you have been doing this for a long time and its only recently you have problems. However, an enriched dough takes longer to rise and the timings on the machine preset might be thrown off. Just a thought.
Beginning to sound like the machine.
While I did have a machine sometime ago (when I first ventured into baking bread but had no oven, only a microwave) I now bake by hand, got rid of the microwave and invested in an oven. I also mainly do sourdoughs.
Have you heard of a tangzhong which will benefit the crumb of a wholemeal loaf?
If volume, the amount used can vary quite a bit depending on things like how packed the flour is and how you scoop it. The difference can easily be +/- 10% or even 20%