Hey guys,
I tried a burger the other week and the bun was just this super light, soft and airy. Literally it was like there was no bun at all. I want to recreate this kind of bun for my own burgers.
They say their bread is classed as a demi-brioche and with some research I've found out the bread doesn't contain any eggs. The bread isn't fluffy at all just really light and airy which to me sounds like the lack of eggs is the cause of the no-fluffiness.
Hopefully someone can help me create a recipe to match this kind of bread. My thought process is using all-purpose flour for a bigger rise, but I'm not a baker so I don't know where to go from there!
Should I add more or less butter? Should I use whole milk for the liquid? If so should all the liquid be milk or part water?
Hopefully someone can help with what ingredients will help with this nice, airy, tender and soft bread. Also I'd like to learn to become a better baker so I'd also like to know what effects the ingredients have. (For example, if more butter is better, please explain why).
I've also attached the image of the crumb of the bread if that's any help.
Thanks guys,
I've used with great success bridge rolls (recipe in link) as burger buns. Shape them into round buns of course. They are rich like brioche (eggs!) and you can use whole milk for the liquid or water to have lighter crumb - or half and half.
I've also made burgers with the Hokkaido tangzhong milk buns - really good and fluffy as anything.
Or try soft white baps.
ckrhodes,
I do two types depending on the venue. One is a typical 'Cafeteria' or 'School Lunch Room' type roll, but formed into a bun. Down side is lots of butter or lard, milk, sugar. Not my favorite, but good.
What I do prefer to make is a Ciabatta based bun. It is a typical Ciabatta recipe with these mod's which are based on 100% Bread Flour: 78% Hyd, 0.6% Yeast, 2.4% Salt, 2.4% Sugar, and 3.0% Olive Oil.
I make a Poolish the day before. It is 50% of the total flour and water. I let it sit out in a 74f room for about 6 hours. Then it is placed in the fridge until the next morning.
Next morning I combine the remainder of the recipe with the Poolish. Mix in a planetary Hobart on SP2 for 3m. Then switch to SP3 for approximately 3~4.5m or until the dough is off the bottom of the bowl and is 'almost' developed. Oh, a KA can handle this soft dough fine, just hang onto it so it doesn't do a dance off the counter.
The 'almost' developed dough is placed in a plastic tub for a 1:45 hour Bulk. It will receive several 'aggressive' stretch and folds after 45m. Then it finishes the bulk time.
I turn the 'sticky' dough out on to a 'well' floured surface. Using abundantly floured hands, gently stretch the dough out into about a 2" thick rectangle. Next I use a 'Progresso' soup can (flour the edges) and cut out the buns. I remove the unused dough and let the cut-outs Proof for 45m.
After the 45m I gently flip the shapes onto an lightly oiled bun pan dusted with cornmeal or Semolina. At this point they are no longer perfectly 'round' and now appear to be nicely irregulary shaped Ciabatta buns. (This is due to the 'softness' of this dough and the challenge to do the flip.)
It is optional to lightly brush the tops with olive oil or butter and sprinkle with garlic powder or just leave with a slight dusting of flour.
I bake with no steam in a pre-heated oven at 410f for 5~6m then lower the oven to 350f for another 10m. Depending on your oven. (Watch closely during your attempts.)
I've had good results with this type bun. Used the same day or no later than the next day toasted they are VG.
Have fun…….. and good hunting!! Oh, due to this dough being very soft it might be frustrating the first million times you attempt this….. perseverance will prevail…. (Start with 500g of flour.)
Oh,,, Sorry I do not have photo's of the buns, but tomorrow I'm whipping up a batch and if you want I can post some photo's.
See-ya, bye
Mennonite Girls can Cook website posts a recipe for air buns. I've made them many times over the years. Flatter or rounder... however you want them.
A solid brioche recipe will yield you terrific light and airy "buns," perfect for a burger, but the quantity of butter and milk is less important than the technique. I can put together a brioche recipe and make you a bread that's as dense as all get-out, or I can take a recipe for whole wheat bread and get you something more in the airy and light department. If you want air, there are a few ways of going about it.
In standard bakeries, brioche dough is made light and airy by three ways :
1. long, hard kneading (5 minutes low speed and 8 - 10 minutes high speed WITHOUT the butter added ; then again 5 minutes low speed and 8 - 10 minutes high speed AFTER the butter is added). So upwards of 30 minutes of being beaten by a mixer is going to incorporate a fair amount of air into your dough.
2. high gluten flour : here in France, it is called "farine de gruau," which is flour that comes from the center of the grain and is supposedly richer in flour (~15%). Higher protein flour will allow more bubbles to hold more air, thus giving the dough more airiness.
3. lots of yeast : while your standard artisan loaves (non-SD) will have less than 1% yeast, brioche will usually have 4% fresh yeast (as a percentage of the flour weight, of course). So for every kilogram of flour you would use, you would add 40 grams of fresh yeast (which would translate to somewhere in the range of 8-10 grams of dry yeast).
So get yourself a nice powerful mixer and some yeast and some high gluten flour, and you'll find what you're looking for.
Thanks for your reply! Your comment was most helpful as I'm not looking for a specific recipe I'm looking to what technique and ingredients make a light and airy bread. I've tried brioche and I agree it's a nice light dough but for me it's a bit too rich. That's why I said I was looking for a recipe without eggs as I feel that eggs make the bread a bit too cottony and fluffy (for a burger I want the bread to not distract from the other ingredients).
For any baking-related problems I tend to message the live chat baker hotline service on King Arthur Flour. A lot of what they say is sometimes contradicting to what other bakers say. For example, they told me that I should use a lower-protein flour (like all-purpose) because it's less chewy. Also I usually knead in a stand mixer for about 25 minutes on high speed and they told me that I'm destroying my gluten and should only knead for 5-10 minutes on a low speed.
So you've suggested the opposite really, and now I'm not sure which technique should be used and why. Any clarification would be helpful!
Gluten protein is a chewy protein. When you have a lot of gluten, the bread will feel chewier, even though there is more air trapped and it rose taller as a result. Think of gluten as netting and bubbles as balloons of all sizes big and small. The more netting there is, the more likely you will trap more balloons. However, you will have to cut through a rubbery network to get the balloons out of the netting (as in when you chew). A rough analogy but it properly illustrates the situation.
You want to have the correct amount of gluten to capture enough air to get the texture you are aiming for. You also want that gluten network to be stretchy enough to allow the bubbles to expand. Thirdly, you want to create a starchy gel that will form the bubble walls.
What does this all mean for your situation.
1. Use a AP (lower protein) flour that will still have adequate gluten present to trap the air/co2. I have found using a tablespoon or 2 of rye flour helps develop a nice starchy gel without adding gluten.
2. Use adequate hydration and time to allow the flour particles to be soaked through in order to release the starchy gel. Adding salt at the end of mixing (but don't forget it!) will help with this. Using a TangZhong is helpful. Another search for you. Don't fret, it is an easy process.
3. Knead/mix to windowpane. Enter "windowpane" in the search box. A good windowpane is absolutely crucial for this type of bun.
As far as enrichment, any fat will help tenderize the crust. Another strategy is to use potato or potatoe water when making soft buns.
So....some ideas to try out on any recipe.
Thanks a lot!
Although it's not like the bread I'm making is dense. It's just not as light as other (especially commercial) bread. There's still a dense and cloggy taste to it, which I feel might just be the limit of artisan breadmaking. I just keep comparing it to this store-bought brioche bun I have. It's the same size as my buns, but my buns weigh 72g (I started with 80g dough ball) whereas the store-bought weights 52g.
Surely to make a bread as light as this you need to start with less dough and let that dough nearly triple/quadruple without overproofing. Because overall, less weight means lighter, amiright?
There's got to be a way to try and start with a smaller amount of dough and somehow let it go much bigger without overproofing, but how?
Most commercial buns have all kinds of unreadable ingredients or are actually filled with air. I am not sure how to do that at home.
Your best shot at airy buns are using the suggestions and info already given.
Bake some delicious fun!
Edit: Actually, looking at how insanely evenly the bubbles are distributed in your burger picture, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a chemical leavening in addition to yeast.
That type of crumb is the result of intensive machine mixing. I don't think the type or amount of yeast is a significant factor. If you use less yeast, you lengthen the bulk fermentation time.
One other comment regarding the amount of yeast in brioche, mentioned above: An alternative to increasing the amount of yeast is to use osmotolerant yeast. This product is made to be used in highly enriched breads (with lots of fat and/or sugar). It has more yeast per unit (volume or weight) than "normal" instant yeast and the yeast resist bursting in a high-osmolality environment.
David