I would love to hear from anyone who lives in either Queensland, NT, or WA, Australia and who makes their own bread. i think we have , having read some of the posts, a different set of problems than most given the heat and high humidity here.
I have 38°C presently and 30% humidity. But I can tell you I put a lot less yeast in the dough (one scant teasp for 500g flour) for a 4 hour total rise and my starters are in the fridge. Dough rises in the fridge and when I want to bake, warms up fast for a final proof in an Air conditioned 23 - 26°C room. I find it all too easy to over proof the dough. One disaster was caused by a delay into a hot oven. The "boys" ran off with my extension cord. I have my oven sitting outside.
Dough tends to be sticky, even basic AP yeasted loaves. Hubby commented... "Funny how the dough sticks to you but not to the plastic bowl." A bench scraper is my friend. :)
Thanks for the reply. Haven't been to your neck of the woods in years though love it. The humidity is the killer over here though it's quite pleasant and only 32oC today, not bad for autumn:)
I live in Queensland (north of Brisbane). My starter lives in the fridge. No apparent problem with rising times; I check usually 1 hour before the recommended time ends (finger poke test). If you are unsure, do the second rise overnight in the fridge after shaping. Take out 1 hour before baking, transfer with baking paper to baking dish (clay or heavy pot - Aldi rectangular roaster with lid in my case), score and into to preheated oven.
Do you always use a pot? I've been placing it on baking paper on a pizza stone. Have you ever tried starting with a cold oven? I just wondered what the results of that would be like.. My main problem is that, though my dough looks great throughout the provings, when it comes to baking it flops as soon as I pop it in the oven ( this happens with my baguettes too ) which is quite frustrating. I will persevere but would love to know what I'm doing wrong.
your dough is over-proofed. Tray to cut down the time.
I always use a pot; it eliminates the steaming problem. Any heavy-bottom pot with a lid will do. I also have a clay baker (rectangular and a Römertopf). Have tried cold oven before but I get the best results by preheating my oven, baking at 230º f/f for 35 minutes and then switching down to 200ºC f/f for the last 20 minutes. Great ovenspring.
Ingrid can you expand on "try to cut down time" please.. I have dug our dutch oven so will try using it tomorrow. I live Bayside near Cleveland. I don't think I prove it overly long. The first rise usually takes 90 mins then the same again for the second if I've not put it in the fridge. How long do you usually prove for?
I would finger-poke-test the dough after 60 minutes. My recipe calls for three hours for the second rise, but I never make it to that, except in winter. Depending on the temperature it's between 1 1/2 and 2 hours.
I don't actually know if you are using sourdough or yeast only. If you are making yeast breads, follow mini ovens recommendation and use less yeast.
I have a batch of dough sitting proving for the first time at the moment . However due to children's birthday commitments I will probably pop it in the fridge overnight and finish it tomorrow when I have peace and quiet. One of the guys suggested popping a piece of the dough in a separate ss and using that as a guide to when to bake. I thought that was a good idea and will try it. As a footnote if you refrigerate your dough how long does it take to come back up to room temp? 1 hr?
Have you tried the AYW? I noticed that some on the site are really into grinding their own flour and using AYW so lengthen freshness. Interesting but a bit over the top for me.
until it has risen about 1/3, then fold and chill. The flatter the container the sooner it chills and warms up later. You can also reduce yeast by simply using less starter (and more flour and water) Get the salt into the dough from the beginning when fighting hot temps and humidity.
The time the dough takes to warm up can vary. Fridge temp, room temp, fan or no fan, amount of pre-chilled fermentation, covering. Watch the dough.
AYW... yeast water? Fantastic stuff, home made young wine, caught in the fermenting stages. Gives the crumb some surprising colours. Not over your head at all. Just start something fermenting in some clean water and see where it goes.
There are two options regarding AYW from what I've read. The British version uses chopped organic apple but someone on this site uses apple cores?? I am assuming, correct me if I'm wrong, that the AYW substitutes some of the water in the recipes. So to start I just put Apple or raisins in a jar add a little sugar then water and pop it in the fridge. Remembering to stir it a few times a day. Is this correct? I have followed your instructions for the dough and its in the fridge overnight for its second proving looking good so far.
problem today. The dough was ready for the oven, I slashed it and then... cold oven. My fault, sort of, the cable was plugged in but the power switch was off. I fixed that and shoved the dough into the cold oven and turned it on. Preheating usually burns the crust in the mini oven, so After 8 minutes, I turned the temp down until I heard the thermostat "click." Let the coils stopped glowing, gave it a few minutes and then turned it up to my desired temp. Worked very well and added 10 minutes to the baking time. Came out perfect. Nice thing about mini ovens is that they heat up fast.
Sounds like the collapse problem is over proofing. Right now I am right-side-up proofing but placing the dough in a plastic basket on parchment paper, it helps with the shape and the paper stuck on the sides helps hold the dough edge while it bakes. As the crust sets and dough expands parchment releases and lets the dough rise more. Very hard to tell from looking at the crust what I did.
Usually the final proof takes less time than the bulk rise. If the dough is doubling with a bulk rise in 45 min, then the proof is more likely only 30 min. at the same temperature. Remember to save some rise for the oven. The problem with over proofing is that the dough skin becomes weak when stretched to the limit before it goes into the oven. Try shortening the final rise to 30 minutes and see if that helps.
Another thing you might try is to cut the yeast amount in half and let the dough rise slower so you get a longer window to bake before the dough is over proofed.
If dough does deflate before baking, by moving it or scoring it, or placing in the oven shorten the rise (next time , all things equal) by 20 min. Fold the deflated dough to reshape and tighten the skin, letting it have a shorter rise than before.
yep we're in northern NSW and we;ve been having 36C+ some days through summer and humid enough to make your hair curl :)
We do our mixes and then autolyse for 20 - 30mins @ room temp and then bulk ideally for 2hrs @ 15 - 17C. If we go over the 2hrs pushing it to 2 1/2 (with 2 or 3 folds in between) we run the risk of over proofing even though it spends around 12hrs in the fridge for final proof.
Usually we manage but we have a had a couple of bakes on the flatter side, still great to eat but looking a bit tired.
Ok so you mix your water and flour initially then add your starter salt? I have been following the British baker Paul Hollywood and he doesn't bake like the people on this forum:). So I am not in the habit of autolyse at all. What are the benefits of doing this? Yes the weather has been a pain this summer with temps in the 38+ range and high humidity
I have saved an article on autolyse and will read it tomorrow. From reading some of the posts I can see there are many very dedicated bread makers who's posts have amazed me. I have posted a question on Apple yeast water as I read that it helps prolong the freshness of loaves so once I get a,reply I will give that a go. But to be honest I'm a home baker who makes brownies for the grandkids I don't want to get into the technicalities just produce decent edible loaf. I'm not even sure what you mean by bulk?
Hi all, understand quite a long time has gone by since your post. Beginner to sourdough here.
I’m in Queensland, Australia, it’s currently winter, sitting between 17 - 20 degrees celsius and still 45-50% humidity daily.
I baked a loaf last night and it had great flavour, super sour, bubbles in it but a little too dense and didn't rise enough. From what I’ve researched I think it was under proofed (10 hrs). The dough became so wet though during bulk rise that I felt like it needed to be baked before it went runny. The recipe is for a 65% humidity loaf. I did approx 3 stretch and folds in the first few hours. I don’t think it was over proofed because it never doubled in size, I baked when it got to 80% its original size.
What are your thoughts on baking in high humidity but lower temp? All the recipes I seem to find are USA recipes and not from humid areas.
I have 38°C presently and 30% humidity. But I can tell you I put a lot less yeast in the dough (one scant teasp for 500g flour) for a 4 hour total rise and my starters are in the fridge. Dough rises in the fridge and when I want to bake, warms up fast for a final proof in an Air conditioned 23 - 26°C room. I find it all too easy to over proof the dough. One disaster was caused by a delay into a hot oven. The "boys" ran off with my extension cord. I have my oven sitting outside.
Dough tends to be sticky, even basic AP yeasted loaves. Hubby commented... "Funny how the dough sticks to you but not to the plastic bowl." A bench scraper is my friend. :)
Mini
Thanks for the reply. Haven't been to your neck of the woods in years though love it. The humidity is the killer over here though it's quite pleasant and only 32oC today, not bad for autumn:)
I live in Queensland (north of Brisbane). My starter lives in the fridge. No apparent problem with rising times; I check usually 1 hour before the recommended time ends (finger poke test). If you are unsure, do the second rise overnight in the fridge after shaping. Take out 1 hour before baking, transfer with baking paper to baking dish (clay or heavy pot - Aldi rectangular roaster with lid in my case), score and into to preheated oven.
Cheers,
Ingrid
Do you always use a pot? I've been placing it on baking paper on a pizza stone. Have you ever tried starting with a cold oven? I just wondered what the results of that would be like.. My main problem is that, though my dough looks great throughout the provings, when it comes to baking it flops as soon as I pop it in the oven ( this happens with my baguettes too ) which is quite frustrating. I will persevere but would love to know what I'm doing wrong.
your dough is over-proofed. Tray to cut down the time.
I always use a pot; it eliminates the steaming problem. Any heavy-bottom pot with a lid will do. I also have a clay baker (rectangular and a Römertopf). Have tried cold oven before but I get the best results by preheating my oven, baking at 230º f/f for 35 minutes and then switching down to 200ºC f/f for the last 20 minutes. Great ovenspring.
Ingrid can you expand on "try to cut down time" please.. I have dug our dutch oven so will try using it tomorrow. I live Bayside near Cleveland. I don't think I prove it overly long. The first rise usually takes 90 mins then the same again for the second if I've not put it in the fridge. How long do you usually prove for?
I would finger-poke-test the dough after 60 minutes. My recipe calls for three hours for the second rise, but I never make it to that, except in winter. Depending on the temperature it's between 1 1/2 and 2 hours.
I don't actually know if you are using sourdough or yeast only. If you are making yeast breads, follow mini ovens recommendation and use less yeast.
I make predominately sourdough with starter.
I have a batch of dough sitting proving for the first time at the moment . However due to children's birthday commitments I will probably pop it in the fridge overnight and finish it tomorrow when I have peace and quiet. One of the guys suggested popping a piece of the dough in a separate ss and using that as a guide to when to bake. I thought that was a good idea and will try it. As a footnote if you refrigerate your dough how long does it take to come back up to room temp? 1 hr?
Have you tried the AYW? I noticed that some on the site are really into grinding their own flour and using AYW so lengthen freshness. Interesting but a bit over the top for me.
until it has risen about 1/3, then fold and chill. The flatter the container the sooner it chills and warms up later. You can also reduce yeast by simply using less starter (and more flour and water) Get the salt into the dough from the beginning when fighting hot temps and humidity.
The time the dough takes to warm up can vary. Fridge temp, room temp, fan or no fan, amount of pre-chilled fermentation, covering. Watch the dough.
AYW... yeast water? Fantastic stuff, home made young wine, caught in the fermenting stages. Gives the crumb some surprising colours. Not over your head at all. Just start something fermenting in some clean water and see where it goes.
There are two options regarding AYW from what I've read. The British version uses chopped organic apple but someone on this site uses apple cores?? I am assuming, correct me if I'm wrong, that the AYW substitutes some of the water in the recipes. So to start I just put Apple or raisins in a jar add a little sugar then water and pop it in the fridge. Remembering to stir it a few times a day. Is this correct? I have followed your instructions for the dough and its in the fridge overnight for its second proving looking good so far.
to an old yeast water post.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/6012/baking-natural-wild-yeast-water-not-sourdough
problem today. The dough was ready for the oven, I slashed it and then... cold oven. My fault, sort of, the cable was plugged in but the power switch was off. I fixed that and shoved the dough into the cold oven and turned it on. Preheating usually burns the crust in the mini oven, so After 8 minutes, I turned the temp down until I heard the thermostat "click." Let the coils stopped glowing, gave it a few minutes and then turned it up to my desired temp. Worked very well and added 10 minutes to the baking time. Came out perfect. Nice thing about mini ovens is that they heat up fast.
Sounds like the collapse problem is over proofing. Right now I am right-side-up proofing but placing the dough in a plastic basket on parchment paper, it helps with the shape and the paper stuck on the sides helps hold the dough edge while it bakes. As the crust sets and dough expands parchment releases and lets the dough rise more. Very hard to tell from looking at the crust what I did.
Usually the final proof takes less time than the bulk rise. If the dough is doubling with a bulk rise in 45 min, then the proof is more likely only 30 min. at the same temperature. Remember to save some rise for the oven. The problem with over proofing is that the dough skin becomes weak when stretched to the limit before it goes into the oven. Try shortening the final rise to 30 minutes and see if that helps.
Another thing you might try is to cut the yeast amount in half and let the dough rise slower so you get a longer window
to bake before the dough is over proofed.
If dough does deflate before baking, by moving it or scoring it, or placing in the oven shorten the rise (next time , all things equal) by 20 min. Fold the deflated dough to reshape and tighten the skin, letting it have a shorter rise than before.
yep we're in northern NSW and we;ve been having 36C+ some days through summer and humid enough to make your hair curl :)
We do our mixes and then autolyse for 20 - 30mins @ room temp and then bulk ideally for 2hrs @ 15 - 17C. If we go over the 2hrs pushing it to 2 1/2 (with 2 or 3 folds in between) we run the risk of over proofing even though it spends around 12hrs in the fridge for final proof.
Usually we manage but we have a had a couple of bakes on the flatter side, still great to eat but looking a bit tired.
oh, but this is all sourdough of course :)
Ok so you mix your water and flour initially then add your starter salt? I have been following the British baker Paul Hollywood and he doesn't bake like the people on this forum:). So I am not in the habit of autolyse at all. What are the benefits of doing this? Yes the weather has been a pain this summer with temps in the 38+ range and high humidity
I have saved an article on autolyse and will read it tomorrow. From reading some of the posts I can see there are many very dedicated bread makers who's posts have amazed me. I have posted a question on Apple yeast water as I read that it helps prolong the freshness of loaves so once I get a,reply I will give that a go. But to be honest I'm a home baker who makes brownies for the grandkids I don't want to get into the technicalities just produce decent edible loaf. I'm not even sure what you mean by bulk?
Hi all, understand quite a long time has gone by since your post. Beginner to sourdough here.
I’m in Queensland, Australia, it’s currently winter, sitting between 17 - 20 degrees celsius and still 45-50% humidity daily.
I baked a loaf last night and it had great flavour, super sour, bubbles in it but a little too dense and didn't rise enough. From what I’ve researched I think it was under proofed (10 hrs). The dough became so wet though during bulk rise that I felt like it needed to be baked before it went runny. The recipe is for a 65% humidity loaf. I did approx 3 stretch and folds in the first few hours. I don’t think it was over proofed because it never doubled in size, I baked when it got to 80% its original size.
What are your thoughts on baking in high humidity but lower temp? All the recipes I seem to find are USA recipes and not from humid areas.
Sorry correction, I meant to say **60% hydration loaf**
Too much acid. Reduce it and it'll be ok. Enjoy!