Well, it really wasn't a loaf as.much as it was an amorphous blob. And although I could probably look through the forum and eventually find what might be the issue l, I have to admit, I'm very new here and I'm pretty sure I'm going to get lost.
I used a pain au levain recipe that I found on TFL from Raluca. I am more concerned with technique of handling high hydration doughs, so I am using only bread flour.
If my math is right I'm at 70% hydration, which after years of pizza dough handling seems rather wet to me. I just can't get the dough to keep a shape at all. I knead by hand for 10 minutes and stretch and fold three times with 50 minutes between. And then I proof it in a towel lined colander for an hour. And what I get is a blob of bread.
The taste is good. The crust is good. The crumb is a little chewy, (perhaps under cooked). But the shape is annoyingly blob like.
I wonder if I need to bulk ferment for longer? I have read that if my preferment takes 5 hours to "activate" my dough might take as long?
Is.my starter not ready? Or am I missing something obvious and fundamental?
If I'm interpreting correctly, it looks like you're taking less than four hours from mixing to baking. Depending on the proportion of starter you use as well as how active it is, the temp. it proofs at, what ingredients are in the dough, etc., it may just be a matter of needing more time.
You're more likely to get better replies if you post your complete recipe and method.
and method...yes, looking back at that last hasty post I realize how much "interpretation" is needed. Not to make excuses, but I'm at the mercy of a smart phone to post...my thumbs never would have survived recipe and method. But I'll post again with a more complete description next time.
But I think you are probably right. Timing is everything. Also, keeping accurate notes...I'll have to work on that.
And thank you for the reply. Im still getting my feet wet with sourdough...seems like I'm going to have to figure out what I don't know first.
So reduce the hydration to what you're used to using. 60% is fine, even less if you want. For the most part, the high hydration will just give you those big internal glossy bubbles (long proofing plays a part too) - but not all sourdough loaves have that and not everyone likes them. My most popular sourdough loaf (that I sell) comes out at 63% overall hydration and is a reasonable compromise between bubbles and usable bread that butter/jam/honey doesn't fall through.
-Gordon
I suppose that's why I wanted to work for myself to begin with. I appreciate your reply, Gordon.
I'll try to play with it a bit. Since my goal at this point is to become comfortable with sourdough I suppose playing around could only help.
it might be beneficial to start by getting comfortable making a straightforward loaf consistently, after which it's pretty east to move on to an endless range of variations like add-ins, subbing part of the flour for other types, changing the hydration, etc.
I'm really only experimenting with time as my variable. Well, time and shaping. I'll move on to fancy flours soon enough.
to proof in the winter. If you are in the US using bread flour 70 % hydration isn't very high like it is for Gordon in the UK.
A new starter is very slow too.
Thank you for that encouragement.
While it could be many things, one not mentioned yet is shaping. Even if your dough is ready if you don't shape properly you can still end up with something of a blob. I have a very active starter than can easily proof in 4 hours so it is hard to know how that plays into the equation without seeing it.
And take some pictures. The only shape ive ever tried is a basic boule. Figured it's the easiest to learn. But as far as shaping goes, I really have no idea. Just sort of took what I know about balling dough balls for pizza and turnd it into a Boule.
That even happens to us oldies. Floyd has fun messing teaching us new ways to find posts. No need to type the whole recipe, just the link and what you did different. Also use the bookmark function to get back to a post.
IDY dough tends to run a straighter path to the oven than sourdough. Sourdough has additional bacteria in there helping out so the fermenting is longer as yeast build and dough is more relaxed (it's being attacked.)
Sort of like a couch potato, make the couch potato get up once in a while to get their own food and do their own running around, they hold their shape much better. :)
I don't begin to fold my sourdough until I see some rise going on. Depending on the recipe and portion of sourdough, temp. this can take hours. (If the dough is cold, I might fold just to warm it up.) Once I see it rising, usually about a third of it's volume, I fold, flip, and tuck under the corners for some kind of puffed up shape. Watch this shape. In the beginning I suggest tipping a large bowl over the dough leaving it on the counter if you can. Watch it rise. take notes. (date, recipe or flour, hydration, time between intervals, aroma, texture, temp. day or night)
When you see it rising more out than up, time to fold again. Also keep track of when and times between folding. You should notice the need to fold getting closer together esp. with the wetter doughs. When you have to fold 40 to 35 min apart, turn on the oven, fold, 10 min rest and shape. Plop into the banneton and go for a short final rise but don't let it double. That would overproof it. Gently turn out onto parchment and bake.
I'm in the same boat as you Rick, a sourdough newb, learning by mistakes as well as success. My first one two weeks ago I followed drogon's Sourdough I and Sourdough II blog posts to the letter and it came out great, since then I have been experimenting a little with hydration and flours and am set to try a rye starter next.
I don't even have a banneton and must improvise, but the shaping at 63% hydration was easy and the loaf rose higher not outward.
It has been too long. The complexities of life interfere with my quest to bake fabulous bread.
Digital...you are right. This place is full of helpful knowledgeable people. I'm quite accustomed to secretive chefs and the like, telling you how they made a dish but keeping one little morsel of information to themselves. Here, everyone seems to want everyone to learn, and to succeed. ( I bet a dinner party with members would be quite fun. )
Anyway, ive spent some time looking into my process and I tried pain au levain once more since last post. The results were ok. But I'm positive I simply need to be more patient. One good thing about home baking is that I can listen to the dpugh rather than the clock.
MINI, Thank you again for great advice so clearly stated. I'll keep working on it. And hopefully I get better at taking notes. Never really been my strong suit.
Anyway, I take terrible pictures and I navigate a smartphone like a patent clerk aboard a whaling ship. So whenever I figure out how to post pictures, I'll add them here.
Cheers!
I recommend photobucket for posting here. It has yet to fail me in all the years on this site.
.
Probably doesn't make much sense. Maybe I don't really know what a patent clerk does.....
Rick
I like how you turn a phrase and 'a patent clerk aboard a whaling ship' was perfectly clear to me.
I really only posted my (.) so that I could keep this thread in my 'track' (on my profile page). Just makes it easier to not lose sight of it.
I just had nothing of significance to add, thus, just the (.)
Regarding pics, if you go to the top of the page, on the menu bar (and I forget if it's under 'handbook' or 'FAQs' (probably both) you will find the instructions on how to do so on this forum.
Looking forward to seeing them. It sounds like you're doing well.
dobie