The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Cooking with sprouted spelt grains, a poolish, and an outolyse

RB32689's picture
RB32689

Cooking with sprouted spelt grains, a poolish, and an outolyse

I have been struggling to get decent loaves out of my attempt to put together a recipe for sprouted whole grain spelt with no  flour. My wish is to use a poolish and  autolyse.  I am pleased with my standard loaves that have not used sprouted spelt grains, but I now wish to transition to sprouted grains. There is good medical research  grounds for the switch:

According to the Ai referred to below:

"There are cultures that practice sprouting grains before making bread. One such example is the traditional practice of sprouting grains in some Native American cultures. They would soak grains like corn, wheat, or barley in water until they sprout, and then grind them into a paste or flour to make bread."

  • Preiously when using unsprouted  ground spelt grains, i used for the Poolish spelt 300g, water 300g, small amount of yeast per a table of values according to the temperature and time span.
  • Main dough: spelt flour 1200, water 900
  • Lowish  salt
    •  

I wrote to an on line AI calletd chatgpt ai-unlimited. The AI gave me the following reply, which looks reasonable, but I need help to change it into a recipe, especially because the sprouted grains are heavier and more hydrated than the dry grains. This has made it difficult for me to decide on amounts of added water needed in the recipe. I have found that the water to grain ratio of unsprouted grains does not work for freshly sprouted grains. 

Can I please have some advice and guidance to fill in the outline below. (assuming I start with 1500g of spelt before sprouting all of it?

I propose to use a food processor to avoid the need to dry out the sprouted grains.

Here is the AI's reply to my request for a recipe:

  • Unfortunately, as an AI text-based assistant, I don't have access to real-time information or specific recipes. However, I can provide you with a general outline for making spelt loaves using freshly sprouted spelt grains, a poolish, and an autolyse. Please note that you may need to adjust the measurements and techniques based on your specific preferences and baking experience.

  • Ingredients:
    - Freshly sprouted spelt grains
    - Water
    - Active baking powder
    - Salt (low amount)
    - Optional: additional ingredients for flavor or texture (e.g., seeds, nuts)

    Instructions:

    1. Sprouting Spelt Grains:
    - Soak spelt grains in water for about 8-12 hours.
    - Drain the water and rinse the grains thoroughly.
    - Place the grains in a sprouting jar or a sieve covered with a cloth.
    - Rinse the grains twice a day for 2-3 days until sprouts appear.

    2. Poolish:
    - Mix equal parts (by weight) of sprouted spelt grains and water in a bowl.
    - Add a small amount of active baking powder to the mixture.
    - Cover the bowl and let it ferment at room temperature for 12 hours or overnight.

    3. Autolyse:
    - In a separate bowl, combine the sprouted spelt grains (without the poolish) with water.
    - Let the mixture rest for about 30 minutes to hydrate the grains.

    4. Dough Preparation:
    - Combine the poolish and autolyse mixture in a large mixing bowl.
    - Gradually add more sprouted spelt grains until the desired consistency is achieved.
    - Add a low amount of salt to the dough and mix well.
    - Optional: incorporate any additional ingredients for flavor or texture.

    5. Proofing and Baking:
    - Shape the dough into three loaves and place them on a baking sheet or in loaf pans.
    - Cover the loaves with a cloth and let them rise in a warm place until doubled in size.
    - Preheat the oven to a moderate temperature (around 180-200 Celsius).
    - Bake the loaves for approximately 30-40 minutes or until they turn golden brown.

    Please note that this is a general guideline, and it's always recommended to refer to a specific recipe for precise measurements and instructions.

 

 

Your help would be appreciated

Robin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Abe's picture
Abe

Have wheat or barley. I would think out of those three only corn was native to the Americas. So i'm not sure about AI. 

But you've come to the right place. Real humans with knowledge. I believe when grains are sprouted to make bread it's just until the white of the shoot starts to grow. This happens within about a day after soaking. If the sprouts are left to grow more this is more for making malts and should you have too much malt in bread the results will be poor. Judging by the AI answer it looks like if left for that long the grains will be too far along. 

Hope others will chime in with more in-depth knowledge of this process. 

tpassin's picture
tpassin

There is a grain native to the Americas called "Little Barley".  From Wikipedia:

Little barley is believed to have been cultivated by Native Americans due to its abundance in archaeological sites. Evidence for the earliest known cultivation in eastern North America was found at the Gast Spring site in what is today Louisa County, Iowa. Seeds were found alongside domesticated goosefoot seeds and squash or gourd rinds dating to 2,800 to 3,000 years ago. Large plots were required to produce adequate harvests due to the grain's small size. Hordeum pusillum was briefly domesticated during the Prehispanic period. Evidence suggests domestication took place in the southeastern and southwestern United States. In the southeastern and midwestern United States, however, domestication lasted through the Middle Archaic and protohistoric periods.[5] To the Hohokam culture in Arizona, archeological evidence suggests that little barley was used for trade between other tribes whose diet did not normally included domesticated little barley.[5]

Little barley cultivation is important in understanding pre-maize agriculture.[11]

Uses

The small grains are edible, and this plant was part of the Eastern Agricultural Complex of cultivated plants used in the Pre-Columbian era by Native Americans.[12] Before being displaced by agriculture based on maize, little barley may have been domesticated.

I would think (but I don't know for sure) that any early culture must have had times when their grain wasn't dry enough and started to sprout.  They surely would have tried to make use if it before it spoiled.  Either they got some kind of beer or they would have tried grinding it into flour.

From a USDA page (https://plants.usda.gov/DocumentLibrary/plantguide/pdf/ccpg_horde.pdf):

Barley was brought to America by two routes. Columbus carried seed on his ships from Haiti to New England and Spanish conquerors brought barley to the southwestern region in the 17th century (Wiebe, 1979). Colonists planted barley mainly for conversion to malted beverages. Barley is better suited than wheat and rye to malting procedures because the seed has an intact hull that protects the seed while it is germinating and being processed

 

Abe's picture
Abe

Wheat not being native and corn being native. Never heard of little barley but sounds like there's a difference between barely and little barley. Just looked it up. It's related to barley. In other words a type of barley native to North America. Learned something new. 

Did Christopher Columbus ever reach what is now known today as the USA? I don't think so. 

 "...Columbus carried seed on his ships from Haiti to New England..."

This is incorrect, I think. 

tpassin's picture
tpassin

I believe you are right about Columbus.  I think he never set foot on the continent of North America.

Little barley is not the same as barley, being a native grass.  It apparently was known and possibly cultivated by native Americans.  I suppose it has some similarities, hence the name.  Wheat, of course, came with the Spaniards at some point

alcophile's picture
alcophile

Little barley (Hordeum pusillum) is in the same genus as grain barley (H. vulgare). Evidently, there must be enough similarities for the taxonomists to classify it as a barley.

Most of the important cereal grains have wild relatives, and often the domestication of them can be traced back to a wild (native) species. The domestication of maize is still somewhat sketchy to scientists.

Other North American native grasses have been used as grains. The most familiar is wild rice (Zizania palustris), but Canada Wild Rye (Elymus canadensis), rice-grass (Oryzopsis spp.), and dropseed (Sporobolus spp.), among others, were also used as edible grains (mostly as flour). One fascinating characteristic of Sporobolus heterolepis (Prairie Dropseed) is the faint aroma of popcorn when it is in bloom.

tpassin's picture
tpassin

This got me interested in trying to tune up a prompt or two that would display the same kind of bread.  Here's the transcript.  Note that I had to ask ChatGPT to correct the hydration, and then about the fact that yeast for the poolish had been omitted -

Me
===
I want to make a loaf for bread using sprouted spelt flour. Speaking as an baker experienced in baking with sprouted grains, provide a recipe that incorporates a poolish and an autolyse, for a flour weight of 300g.  be concise.

ChatGPT
========
Certainly! Here's a concise recipe for a sprouted spelt flour loaf with a poolish and an autolyse: 

Ingredients:
225g sprouted spelt flour
75g bread flour
275g water (room temperature)
5g salt
50g active poolish (50/50 mix of sprouted spelt and water)

Instructions:
Day 1 - Prepare Poolish:
Mix 25g sprouted spelt flour, 25g bread flour, and 50g water.
Cover and let it ferment at room temperature for about 12 hours.

Day 2 - Autolyse and Final Mix:
In a large bowl, combine the remaining 200g sprouted spelt flour and 50g bread flour.

Add 225g water to the flours, mix until just combined, and let it rest for 30 minutes (autolyse).

After autolyse, add 5g salt and the 50g active poolish to the dough.

Mix everything until well incorporated.

Bulk Fermentation and Folding:

Perform a series of 3-4 folds during the bulk fermentation, allowing the dough to rest between folds.

Bulk ferment for 3-4 hours or until the dough has increased in volume.

Shaping and Final Proof:

Gently shape the dough into a round loaf.

Place the shaped dough in a well-floured proofing basket.

Cover and let it proof for 1-2 hours or until it passes the poke test.

Baking:

Preheat your oven to 450°F (232°C) with a Dutch oven inside.

Transfer the proofed dough into the preheated Dutch oven.

Score the top of the dough with a sharp knife.

Cover with the Dutch oven lid and bake for 20 minutes.

Remove the lid and bake for an additional 20-25 minutes or until the crust is golden brown.

Cooling:
Allow the bread to cool on a wire rack for at least one hour before slicing.

Enjoy your delicious sprouted spelt flour loaf with the added complexity of a poolish and autolyse!

Me
===
This will give a dough having 100% hydration.  That seems very high.  Will the sprouted spelt flour really be able to absorb all that water?

ChatGPT
========
You're absolutely correct, and I appreciate your keen observation. Sprouted spelt flour may not absorb water as readily as some other flours, and a 100% hydration level might result in a dough that is too wet.

To adjust the hydration level, you can start with a lower hydration, such as 75-80%, and then adjust based on the dough's consistency during mixing. Here's a modified recipe with a lower initial hydration:

Ingredients:
225g sprouted spelt flour
75g bread flour
250g water (room temperature)
5g salt
50g active poolish (50/50 mix of sprouted spelt and water)

Follow the same instructions as before, adjusting the water in the autolyse and final mix steps to 250g. During mixing, observe the dough's consistency, and if needed, add a little more water gradually until you achieve a dough that is well-hydrated but not overly wet.

Remember, the flour's absorption can vary, and factors like humidity also play a role, so it's always a good idea to adjust hydration based on the feel of the dough during mixing.

Me
===
I'm worried that the poolish does not include any yeast.  I do not think that the poolish mixture you specified will ferment enough in that time without yeast, and that it may not be safe because of harmful bacterial that could grow during that time if there is no yeast.

ChatGPT
=======
You're right, and I appreciate your attention to detail. A traditional poolish does indeed include yeast to facilitate fermentation and provide leavening. I apologize for the oversight. Let's adjust the poolish to ensure a proper fermentation process. Here's the corrected recipe:

Day 1 - Prepare Poolish:

Mix 25g sprouted spelt flour, 25g bread flour, 50g water, and a tiny pinch (about 1/16 tsp) of instant yeast.

Cover and let it ferment at room temperature for about 12 hours.

The addition of a small amount of instant yeast in the poolish will ensure a more reliable and controlled fermentation process. This adjustment will enhance the leavening action, and you can proceed with the rest of the recipe as previously outlined.

I appreciate your understanding, and I hope you enjoy baking your sprouted spelt flour loaf!

This doesn't seem like a bad response, but even the second try has a lot of water and I'm still uneasy about the yeast.  OTOH, I haven't worked with any sprouted grains, let alone spelt, so I don't have a feel whether the hydration level is reasonable.

As always, ChatGPT's response quality can be influenced by the prompt, and you have to scrutinize the responses carefully in case it has gone off the rails.

suave's picture
suave

Poolish is a preferment made of 1:1 mixture, by weight, of flour and water, with some amount of yeast

Autoluse is process of improving gluten development by mixing flour and water prior to kneading.

Neither of this is happening with unmilled grain and baking powder.

RB32689's picture
RB32689

Chat gpt says:

The weight gain of spelt grains during the sprouting process can vary depending on several factors, including the specific conditions and environment in which they are sprouted. On average, spelt grains can absorb water and increase their weight by approximately 25% to 50% during sprouting. Therefore, if you started with 100g of spelt grain, it is reasonable to expect that it may weigh around 125g to 150g after three days of sprouting. However, please note that these figures are approximate and can vary based on individual circumstances.

 

Taking the unfermented recipe in my first posting. Should there be any adjustment  to take into account water uptake during fermentation?

My view is that the additional weight of the grains due to water uptake should be treated as a contribution to the water.

EG:

Main dough grains can be assumed to increase by 25% per chatgpt:. 1200+300=1500

Water would therefore be reduced from 900-300=600 if the grains had taken up 300ml during fermentation.

The fermentation ratio for the main dough would be:

fermented undried grains 1500

Water                                  600

Revised hydration                 40% (previously 75%)

My reason is if I dried the fermented grains they should go back to 1200g and need 900g water.  The above assumes i do not dry them.

Is this reasonable?

In practice, I could work out the water take up by comparing the weights when dry and after sprouting.