September 1, 2023 - 7:56pm
Flour Power / Tara Jensen Method
Flour Power by Tara Jensen, published a year ago, offers interesting recipes and formulae. Tara has a unique (to me) method of placing the dough after bulk fermentation into the fridge, WITHOUT SHAPING, then after 8 to 24 hours in fridge removing to bench, then preshaping, shaping, and then a final proof at room temp before baking.
I wonder if bakers out there have used this method and if it produced a superior loaf. Planning to bake with this method this Labor Day. It's intriguing because I've often wondered whether my dough was fully proofed after removing from fridge and baking immediately.
Happy Labor Day.
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Retarding part of the bulk ferment sounds pretty normal to me. After the dough goes into the refrigerator it keeps on fermenting for roughly an hour (an unscientific rule of thumb of mine), then slowly after that. I'm not convinced that it makes much difference in the bulk fermentation period when you do a retard, at least once the dough starts to visibly rise. It you want to have a 10 hour bulk ferment, you can interrupt that 10 hours by a retardation pretty much anywhere as long as you get your 10 hours at room temperature.
The bread usually comes out better with a retard, no matter exactly when it happens.
I don't have an opinion as to whether it's better to retard the shaped loaves or the bulk ferment. But I'm sure other folks do.
TomP
I guess the disadvantage of the ambient final proof ( however you arrive at it) is the difficulty of scoring the loaves successfully.
It's so much easier to achieve a decent score and hence ear on the loaf (if this is your thing) when the shaped dough is cold.
Lance
I have a fairly good history of scoring, and not shy about stating that my dough is virtually always cold when I score.
OTOH, just this afternoon Benny posted that he scored his insanely high hydration loaf after a 5 minute no-steam bake to firm up the dough a bit.
Baking is fun! Always something new to learn, even for us old dogs.
Only case would be in a highly hydrated dough, otherwise I have no issues doing it this way. While I won’t win any awards I think my scoring is pretty good 😊
This is how I’ve been baking SD for a long time. You can see my posts here or on my blog at www.mookielovesbread.Wordpress.Com for inspiration.
Regards,
Ian
I have been getting absolutely fantastic results with another refrigerator based method, the “Two stage method” (https://thesourdoughjourney.com/what-is-two-stage-bulk-fermentation/) and the associated video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDOfIAgyCy8). It gives me the freedom to fit proper fermentation and proofing into my hectic schedule (I am running two businesses and have two active pre- and grade-school kids).
I have actually found that for most open crumb breads I make (this also depends a little on the starter I use, i.e., a 100% hydration rye starter and a 50% hydration bread flour/whole wheat starter), the type of whole flour I add to the bread flour (wheat, rye, spelt, einkorn, emmer), and the temperature in my kitchen, I need to add ½ hour up to as much as 1½ hour room temperature post-shaping proofing time in the basket, before putting the basket into the fridge in the second, final, stage of the two stage fermentation.
I need to add ½ hour up to as much as 1½ hour room temperature post-shaping proofing time in the basket, before putting the basket into the fridge
That sounds about right. By my unscientific rule of thumb, once the dough goes into the refrigerator it will continue to ferment/expand somewhat for about an hour as it cools down. So it needs to get a good start first.
TomP
I have gotten very good results without getting the dough up to the 78° F temperature recommended in the link (my kitchen temps are usually 72 - 76° F). And I get very good results with a longer room temperature bulk ferment before retarding. So I basically agree with the linked post, but I don't think one needs to be as picky as it sounds.
The linked post has an interesting graph of the dough's temperature vs time while cooled. The graph shows that after an hour in the fridge the dough temperature has dropped nearly 10° F. This is enough to slow down gas production a lot, in line with my rule of thumb I posted above. Not shown is that by that time, the dough temperature will not be uniform inside the mass of dough. This is another reason to enjoy using the method without worrying too much about the exact details.
The actual rate of cooldown will also depend on the amount of dough and the size and dimensions of the fermenting bowl. But as long as the dough is cooled long enough, those details aren't going to make much difference.
TomP
tpassin, I understand very well what you are saying, my experience is pretty much the same, or very similar. Yet, the guy in the video somehow makes beautiful breads without additional room temperature fermentation or proofing, starting with his dough at 78F. This did not work for me, the results were obviously underfermented breads. I follow a variant of the Tartine method, using various flour combinations, but working with my already autolysed dough for about 3 hours 10 minutes from adding the leaven to sticking it into the fridge, maintaining throughout a steady dough temperature of 82F, and yet I find that I need to warm up the refrigerated dough at room temperature prior to preshaping for 30 minutes longer than the guy in the video (now, my kitchen at this time of the year is around 75F, perhaps that guy's kitchen is warmer?) and then proof at room temperature (again, 75F) for about an hour, which is something the guy in the video does not do at all. I don't really understand why it is so, which actually bothers me quite a bit; I am one of those people who need to understand the world around them, rather than just take it at face value and not worry about the "whys".
Another thing I like about this long low temperature fermentation process is that--at least it seems so to me--it produces a more pronounced flavor to the bread, more earthy and tangy and i like this a lot.
A.
Tom, A. Borqui, Ian, et al., many good points. I am going to use Tom's Thumb Rule and Borqui's suggested timing for next bake.
I did indeed bake as per Tara's instructions (and she was kind enough to answer my email). Final proof for 2 hrs 40mins. The loaf was a bit overproofed, probably due to my inexperience in final proofing at room temp, the heat in NYC, and poking analysis ability. My scoring wasn't horrible but there was more anxiety - holding a new razor over a 500 degree hunk of iron and a bulging dough was um thrilling.
The baked loaf was a bit flat. Open crumb that had collapsed somewhat. Good experiment.
Thanks much. Lori
*Dough was 80% hydration, kinda standard white/wheat country style with 15% inoculation of preferment to try this out. I use rye/AP starter with Farmer Ground flours. Twelve hours in fridge after bulk. Shaped twice, placed in banneton on kitchen counter for final proof/rise.
is that time and temperature at all stages, not just in the oven, are important and are integral part of making bread and one would do well minding them. What for one is room temperature can be 65 F and for another it would be 80. You cannot expect the dough to behave the same in both environments without extra measures. I just think it's something to keep in mind while making bread. Also everyone's kitchen is different and observing your dough is a most helpful skill.
One thing you could try for slashing, if you can't find a "combo"-style DO with a lid that can be used for the bottom (so the dough is exposed to the slasher) is to use a parchment paper sling and slash before you lower the loaf into the DO. The sling bottom will bend the loaf upwards so you want to plan your slashes so they won't be squeezed all the way shut, but this way is a lot safer and easier.
Here's are two "combo" DOs I've seen some people using:
https://www.amazon.com/Lodge-Cooker-Pre-seasoned-Skillet-Convertible/dp/B0009JKG9M
https://www.amazon.com/Lodge-L8DD3-Cast-Iron-Dutch/dp/B000LEXR0K/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=dutch+oven+combo+cooker+for+bread&qid=1694136855&sr=8-6
Or you could try not preheating the DO - I've tried that and it worked pretty well, though some people say you get less volume in the loaf.