Making cracked rye or rye meal in Mockmill?
I love baking rye loaves but find it difficult to obtain the coarsely ground rye called for in many recipes ever since NY Bakers stopped selling their great selection. I've been thinking about getting a Mockmill for a while and I think I could use it for that but could not find a definitive answer. I was mainly interested in Mockmill because I wanted to make a high extraction wheat flour and there is a lot of information about that but I only found very few mentions of cracking/coarsely grinding grains, especially rye. Is anybody making cracked grains in their mills? How about the different types of rye meal? It would be awesome if someone could provide pictures of the different granulations obtainable in home mills. I checked on the manufacturers' web sites but information is scant.
I don't have a mill myself, but I found this on a post comparing a Mockmill to a KoMo -
"Ease of use is a consideration for people who crack grains. Adjusting the MockMill can be a bit more difficult than on the Komo. The MockMill has an adjusting lever on the side. As long as you can achieve the grind you want within its range of travel, life is good. The adjustment range is from fine to somewhat coarse. If you need to make cracked wheat, life gets more interesting. Where the Komo lets you just turn the top of the mill to adjust over the full range, the MockMill has a sliding lever on the side of the mill to adjust the fineness of the grind. When you go all the way to coarser and need to go further, you have to loosen the sliding lever which disengages it from the grinding mechanism, move it towards fine end its travel and re-tighten it. Then you can move towards coarser again. We had to go through this 3 or 4 times to get coarsely cracked wheat. And then we had to reverse the process to get back to grinding flour. This sounds more complex than it really is, and it wasn't a big hassle, but it was more complex than it needs to be"
From -
https://www.sourdoughhome.com/mockmill-100/
Though it doesn't sound optimal and a bit of a chore, for the amount of baking I do it sounds like something I could live with. Although I have my mind pretty much set on the Mockmill 100, I'll check that web site for more info on the Komo.
but don't use it for cracking. I have an old Corona hand crank mill that does a great job at that.
an interesting option. Thanks!
I'm sorry I can't offer help specific to the Mockmill, but perhaps it's helpful in terms of a way to go. I have a Retsel, which is a real tank, and the coarseness is basically infinitely variable - there's no "settings" on the mill, it all depends on how tight I tighten the stones with the large tightening knob. Some may hate that, but I love it, because it allows me to go all the way from large cracked grains, though middle, and fine (e.g., in German "schrot," though it's not really schrot but close enough, "groß," "mittel" and "fein," the fine which I use for pumpernickel breads. The flour itself gets fine enough for my needs, though I suspect the Mockmill or Komo may do somewhat better (too fine, especially on rye, and the stones will heat up and bind after awhile, so I have to run rice through them, clean them with a brush, re-assemble and start again).
Anyway, just a note on a system with infinite variability, for producing a great range in cracked grains.
enters the ring! Now this has me intrigued. It looks like it would be much easier to adjust than the Mockmill to get cracked grains or the "schrot". As for the fine flour, how much can you make before it binds?
Yeah, I feel really lucky with the Mil-Rite. I got some great help from members here when I was looking - I think it was Barryvabeach? (Sorry Barry, if I have it wrong!). Unfortunately Retsel's customer service is literally non-existent (I'm not exaggerating). If something were to break down, unless I could find it from e-bay or another third party, that would be the end of the line because even though Retsel has a "parts" set of pages for their mills, despite numerous contacts (including at least two purchases), they never replied. So I would caution anyone wanting one of these, really solid workhorses, to know this ahead of time.
For what it's worth, here's a video of the mill in action, milling rye.
On the binding, it really is temperature dependent. Rye also binds much easier than other grains in my experience due to its typical moisture content. When I buy new rye in bulk, I spread it out to dry, and keep it dry in a bucket with a bag of rice. Just found the post - it was alcophile himself who gave the idea!
As to much I can go before it will bind, I'm sorry, I can't really. I'll just say the machine's throughput is really substantial - one of the things I "bought" from Retsel was their large hopper for the mill, and without a reply I jury-rigged a set of two nested funnels, the large being pretty massive (near the end of the above video, you can just see the pretty "rustic" hopper set up, lol. The red funnel is the large one). I can really move a lot of grain.
Best of luck! When I was looking I would have been pleased with either the Komo or Mockmill. From everything I've read, tons of happy bakers.
I don't bake a whole lot, usually a 1 kg loaf a week (or maybe 2 kg if it's a dense rye one) so maybe 600 to 1300 grams flour max at a time. That was the main reason in looking at the smaller Mockmill 100.
I haven't yet depleted my stock of rye meals purchased from NYBakers. I don't have any plans to purchase a mill, so I have been searching the web for substitutes in preparation for that inevitability. Here are some thoughts I have for subs:
Coarse rye meal (Roggenschot grob)—I have ordered rye chops from Janie's Mill, Bulk Foods, and have a sample from Bakers Authority. None of them are as coarse as the coarse rye meal from Bay State Milling (via NYB). I plan to try this coarse rye meal (link) from an online Dutch foods store when I need more.
Medium rye meal ((Roggenschot mittel)—This one is probably the hardest to match. The previously mentioned rye chops are a little too coarse compared to the BSM medium rye meal. Bakers Authority pumpernickel might actually be the closest match, although a little small. Maybe a mix of the two will approximate the grind.
Fine rye meal (Roggenschrot fein)—I will probably use BA pumpernickel or another pumpernickel if I can find one. The BSM fine rye meal is a little finer than the BA pumpernickel.
Those are great sources and I'd forgotten about them, thanks. Memory is dodgy but I seem to recall a thread here, where BA confirmed their rye chops from Ardent Mills actually is schrot, cut, and not just cracked.
myself but it's dwindling. I came up with a pretty good substitute for the fine meal. But no such luck for the other two. Yeah, the chops seem easy enough to get but I think they're somewhat different than the coarse meal or cracked rye. I'm no expert but the coarse rye meal from NY Bakers looked to my untrained eye more like cracked grain but maybe that's what it was supposed to be. I have no idea about the medium meal.
Thanks for the link to that store! Looks like that one could be useful.
It’s fairly easy to crack grains in a Mockmill. The stones need to be separated quite a bit, depending on the grain size. For example, I open the spacing to about -25 (assuming zero is the finest grind you would move the lever 2-1/2 X counterclockwise) for rye, and -20 for einkorn, which is much smaller. This type of mill, however, doesn’t produce a uniform grind at these settings, so I find it necessary to sift it through a fairly wide mesh. I use a #20, and the retained portion serves well for cracked grains. Sifting with a finer secondary mesh, maybe #30, should produce a rye meal-sized portion but I suspect it would not be efficient to do it this way. The remainder is reground finely for use as flour. Rye is fairly brittle, so that a variety of rye meals should be possible using the same technique just by closing the gap between the stones.
-Brad
Although I would use all of the broken/ground grain in one way or another I wonder how much cracked grain can one expect using your method. Would you happen to know?
Oh, cracked grain is not a problem at all. I could move through 20 lbs at a session, lol. The wheels are widely enough opened that I don't find any issue with heating up or binding. I usually replenish my stocks by starting at a "fine" meal setting (again it's all by feel, as there are no settings) then on to medium, then coarse. This would be after I've milled the flour I need. I'll see if I can take a photo in a few minutes and post it, to show the different grades. It might be hard to tell from the photo, but hope it gives an idea.
Edit: Sorry, I see you asked the question of breadforfun, and not me. Hopefully it's useful, anyway. Good luck.
Thanks for pointing it out. Twenty pounds! I'd never do that much in a single run but good to know! Thanks!
I saw you added a picture! I think it adds to the conversation so no problem! Thanks again!
Lol, I never do either. Just to say, it can run through likely as much cracked rye as I'd ever want at a time. I do the same with spelt and wheat.
It’s north of 60%, sorry I can’t be more accurate than that.
-Brad
No problem! That's gives me a pretty good idea. Thanks!
In a coffee grinder seems to do the trick.
Hi Abe - long time. Hope you've been well.
Yeah, I feel really lucky with the Mil-Rite. I got some great help from members here when I was looking - I think it was Barryvabeach? (Sorry Barry, if I have it wrong!)
You got it right. Most stone mills that I have used can be adjusted quite a bit, and rye berries should be no problem with the Komo, Mockmill or Retsel. As to other grains, if they are fine enough to feed through the feed mechanism of the mill ( there are many different feed mechanisms- the Retsel that we use has a hopper that moves the grains through an auger, other mills use different methods ) and the grains aren't oily, it should work , though check the manufacturer's recommendations.
Nice to see you Barry. Retsel still cranking along. Thanks for your help back then.
Nice to hear from you , and glad yours is still going strong.
Thank you. It's been a while and nice to see you around.
Can you actually make cracked rye in a coffee grinder? I read in some other thread (from several years ago) that they broke their coffee grinder while grinding rye berries. Someone in that thread suggested soaking the rye berries first, and even chopping them with a knife or cracking with a mortar and pestle.
Are there any specific rye berries that should be used for making cracked rye? Or any from the store will do? Don't know much about whole berries as I don't have a flour mill.
Thank you!
You can almost certainly use any rye berries. I don't know enough about milling to give advice on cracked rye specifically, but as in my comment here about milling oats for morning porridge, you can mill rye berries to any degree of coarseness or fineness with a burr-type grain mill. A whirly blade coffee mill may burn out if you were to put kilogram amounts of grain through it. Hard wheat might ruin one faster than rye. A coffee mill with steel burrs would likely be more durable.
Thank you for the response! My coffee grinder is the small whirly blade kind, but I would only need a few ounces of cracked rye for a recipe here and there. I was wondering if they separate any part of the rye berry before making it into cracked rye, but seems like it's just the whole berry.
(I went back to our local store where I thought I saw rye berries for sale, but didn't find them anymore! I wonder if I mistakenly thought they carry them... shipping is so nuts to get rye berries or cracked rye online)
to mill small amounts of rye for your recipe now and then without damaging your grinder. Talk with the staff at the store about their plans for rye berries. There are quite a few grain suppliers who will send you 5 or 10 lb. of rye - not supercheap, probably, but in such an amount it shouldn't break your bank.
if there's a drop-off location near you:
https://www.azurestandard.com/shop/product/food/grains/rye/whole-berries/rye-grain-organic/10540
https://www.azurestandard.com/drop-point-locator
Yippee
Thanks for the reminder. There's a local drop point here now, so time to give them a try!
There are different models of Mockmill using different methods of adjusting the fineness or coarseness of grind. The method on my Mockmill 200 involves moving a lever through a series of detents over about a 45 degree span. Each detent moves the burrs 0.2 mm closer together or farther apart. The lever unscrews to disconnect with the burr-moving mechanism so that it can be reset to move through another 45 deg. of opening or closing, which can be repeated as often as one wishes.
Most mornings I make cracked oats for breakfast porridge by resetting the lever twice and moving it about half way back. As a previous commenter indicated, the zero setting is when the burrs just touch. Other Mockmills achieve the grind fineness in other ways, but the effect is the same: The miller has good control of the mill. You can make any grade of flour you like. Some experimenting may be required to achieve your purpose. Different baking books offer different descriptions of types of rye flour, so matching your mill output with the requirements of a given formula and method will take some trial and error -- all part of the fun of home baking.
There are different models of Mockmill using different methods of adjusting the fineness or coarseness of grind. The method on my Mockmill 200 involves moving a lever through a series of detents over about a 45 degree span. Each detent moves the burrs 0.2 mm closer together or farther apart. The lever unscrews to disconnect with the burr-moving mechanism so that it can be reset to move through another 45 deg. of opening or closing, which can be repeated as often as one wishes.
Most mornings I make cracked oats for breakfast porridge by resetting the lever twice and moving it about half way back. As a previous commenter indicated, the zero setting is when the burrs just touch. Other Mockmills achieve the grind fineness in other ways, but the effect is the same: The miller has good control of the mill. You can make any grade of flour you like. Some experimenting may be required to achieve your purpose. Different baking books offer different descriptions of types of rye flour, so matching your mill output with the requirements of a given formula and method will take some trial and error -- all part of the fun of home baking.