The Fresh Loaf

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Struggling with Rye Starter

tomgoodell's picture
tomgoodell

Struggling with Rye Starter

I've had a non-Rye starter I've kept going and use regularly for about 7 years, so I am familiar with using starters for sourdough. At some point I know I also had a rye starter that worked well, but it's been so long that I can't remember how it behaved.

I began a new rye starter on the evening of 6/19 using rye flour I had just milled that day. I've been using the same batch of flour since then to feed it, and I keep the flour in a sealed container in the fridge between feedings. I take out the amount I need for a feeding and let it warm to room temperature before feeding the starter.

The evening of the 20th it did not, as expected, show much activity. I fed it that evening and the next morning it was about doubled. I was surprised that it took off that fast. But I've been feeding it every evening since then (using 50g starter, 50g rye flour, 50g water) and it never increases by more than about 20%. It seems to me that it should behave pretty much like my other starter, which will double in size after being fed.

I'm wondering what other folks have experienced with rye starters and if anyone has any suggestions.

Thanks in advance for any guidance or thoughts!

 

Abe's picture
Abe

...what is the resulting bread like?

If it makes nice bread them it's doing its job. 

tomgoodell's picture
tomgoodell

Abe—Thanks for your reply. I'm wondering if other folks who work with Rye starters have a different experience, or if it's common that they don't rise much the way a wheat starter does. I'd like to get a little more grounded in that before making a batch of bread and seeing what happens. The starter does show activity—bubbles throughout—it just doesn't rise much in the container. I don't know if that's a bad sign or if that's common.

Another Girl's picture
Another Girl

Hi Tom. I've kept various rye starters since the 90's. Rise is not generally considered a good indicator of when a rye dough or starter has peaked because, structurally, it is a very different animal from a gluten-forming wheat dough. If your starter is on the dry or stiff side (firmer than a paste), you might not see much rise at all. A stiff rye starter will puff up, but that might be it. However, at 100% hydration, your starter shouldn't be too firm, even with a really thirsty flour. My 100% hydration whole rye starter was a nice paste that routinely peaked just shy of double. I'm aware of other bakers whose 100% hydration rye starters regularly tripled at peak. If you have a thick paste, you could try loosening it up slightly. But, as Abe said, if it raises your bread, it's all good. You could make a small test dough to find out and enjoy a couple rolls with dinner. Hope this helps!  –AG

mariana's picture
mariana

Tom, from my experience, your starter is severely underfed. I would switch to feeding it 1:10 or even 1:20 at that point, if you want to keep it fed once a day at room temperature. 5g starter, 50g flour, 50g water. Or 10g starter, 50 flour, 50 water if your room temp is not that warm. 

If you want to see how much your rye starter can rise, what it is capable of due to its consistency (very stiff and very soft dough won't rise much), either mix 50g of your rye flour with 50g of your water with baking powder or with baker's yeast and see how much it would rise with strong leaveners. Then if the rise is more than with your 50g of starter inoculation, then your microflora is not up to standard.

If even with strong leaveners it doesn't rise much, then your starter is stiff (or too soft) and won't rise much with anything.

Some rye starters are so stiff, there is no change in volume whatsoever, although they have tons of wild yeast in them and leaven breads very well. 

For bread baking, the test is to mix a bit of your rye starter with white bread flour (wheat) and water, knead it as you would knead bread dough, and see how much and how fast it rises to the max volume, for example, how fast it will triple or quadruple in volume and how long it will take for it to rise to the max. 

tomgoodell's picture
tomgoodell

Anothergirl & Mariana—Thanks for those comments! I have a feeling that it might be the hydration. The fresh milled rye flour seems to be soaking up the water a lot—after about 12 hours it's pretty dense.

I like to be methodical and eliminate one thing at a time. I just milled up a fresh batch of flour (having consumed the last batch), so I'm doing one feeding with the newly milled flour. Then, assuming it behaves the same as it has been, I'll bump the hydration up to 120% and see what happens. I may also try mixing up a small batch of dough as Abe and anothergirl suggested and see how it all turns out.

So grateful for the comments! Many thanks! I'll post back here and let folks know what I learn.

jaywillie's picture
jaywillie

Just as an added note, I have adjusted the hydration of my long-standing rye starter. I used to do 100% like you, just like my wheat starter. But as you noted, the rye needs more water. So I started using like 115-120% (I weigh, but I don't obsess over the exact percentages of any of it). My usually feeding is ~10g starter, 30g water, 25-28g rye flour. I change the rye weight depending on the actual flour I use -- white rye, medium rye, or pumpernickel. There has been no impact at all on the rise or taste of my rye loaves. When starting a loaf, I refresh using whatever directions my recipe (formula) calls for.

I do get a small but obvious rise in my starter. Aside from that I look for obvious activity (gas bubbles) to know it's worked.