My sourdough is reluctant to rise
I started my own starter - thanks to the directions found on the Clever Carrot site - and have now tried making bread three times. In all three attempts, I've had a problem with the rise. On this last attempt, I upped the warmth and by morning - some 12 hours into the bulk rise -- the dough was nice and big - a success! Then I took it out and put it in a ball -- whereupon it lost quite a bit of volume, which was to be expected -- and put it in a Dutch oven and left it for an hour or two in a warm place with the lid on. But it did not rise much at all at that point. I've read it's not supposed to go back to double its size but should fluff up some. It may have a little. I went ahead and baked it because there wasn't much else I could do at that point - and it came out a kinda squatty, heavy loaf. The flavor is delicious but it's quite dense and I would call this pretty much a failure. What am I doing wrong?
Thank you for your help!
Byron
the recipe and the temperatures for the dough and bread. It does look like it rose some. The bulk rise sounds like it might have been too long before shapng but right now, hard to say without more detail. Have you taken a crumb shot, a close up picture of the bread slice including the crust and middle of the loaf? Is there carrots in the loaf?
Mini
IMG_9282.jpg
Hi, Mini,
It was place loaf in a Dutch oven with a lid and put in the oven preheated to 450. Immediately turn it down to 400. Twenty minutes later, take the lid off and bake for another 40 minutes. Let cool. (When I cut it, it almost seemed as if it wasn't quite done but that's a separate issue. The loaf before this was done before the time elapsed.) I think you may be right about the bulk rise being too long. This morning, after a night of sitting in a warm spot, the dough was almost to the top of the big bowl. I think what might have happened is that I should have grabbed it hours earlier, perhaps, and reshaped it into a ball and let it rise that second short time - and then baked it. I think the natural yeast was spent by the time I got to it this morning. Is that what you're saying? Also - I don't know what a carrot is - I'm assuming that is a term for the voids? Actually there were actually some voids in this loaf - so that's a positive development from the first two attempts!
thank you !!
Byron
Sounds like you understand exactly what could be the problem and already have a plan for the next loaf.
Carrot, root vegetable. The thought occurred to me that having been on "the clever carrot" site, the dough might have a good percentage of carrot in it which might also explain lack in dough strength. Nevermind as I can see from the crumb color there are few carrots, if any, in the recipe. The odd shaped voids in the crumb do look very irregular but that can be caused from long fermentation, type of flour and/or coarse whole flour. (Recipe?) I would definitely try to shorten the bulk rise or let it rise much cooler.
Bowls, especially tapered round bowls are very difficult to judge volume size, even for experienced kitchen elves. I would suggest a quick reality check on your favourite fermenting bowl. While empty, pour in a liter or quart of water. It's not the same as the dough volume but good enough for this exercise. Mark the level and repeat adding or doubling the first volume. Can even add and mark another amount giving a triple volume. Add a forth measure if there is room. Mark it. Empty the bowl and notice the distaces between the marks and how they might compare to the dough "doubling" or "tripling" in volume. You may be surprised in comparing the distance between marks.
Getting back to sourdough, fermenting to "double" volume is risky. Try not to go higher keeping bulk and final rise a little bit under for the next bake. Then you can judge later whether you want to bulk doubling the volume or less than doubling. But you need something to compare to in future bakes. If the dough is still traveling sideways more than up after the next bake, giving a "flat" loaf, you might want to reduce the amount of water in the dough or do some dough folding during the time it takes to bulk rise to build strength for the free form. Usually the higher the hydration, or the wetter the dough feels, the more important these additional folds become. Judging volume gets trickier so you have to rely more on observations like dough feel and aroma, surface texture and the dough's ability to hold its shape after folding.
You have given me a lot to work with to get this going in the right direction. This is taking some getting used to. With "regular" bread, the store-bought yeast provides enough rising horsepower for that part not to be a concern. So I'll give this another shot - with the main difference being, I won't do the bulk rise overnight. I'll do it during the day and stop before doubling. I can also adjust the water. I added a bit more than the recipe called for - because it said you could add more - but at the end, before putting it in the oven, it was too mushy. And if I do it in the day, I can do a half-dozen folds. Thanks again. You're the best! (I'll let you know how it goes.)
Here's the recipe:
If it's the recipe I'm thinking of it's not you it's the recipe. I think it says bulk fermentation takes from 3 to 12 hours or something like that.
Beginners won't know how to judge which end of that time period to use and get the fermentation all wrong.
A good tip is to take a small sample of your dough and keep it in a small jar, marked with the original level of the dough. And you use that as a sort of a gauge to watch the dough rise. The method is called the aliquot jar technique. If you shape at 50% increase and bake at 100%, as a rough approximation you'll be in a better position. As you learn more you'll also learn to judge the dough based on the bubbles and jiggle that develop as it ferments, and then you won't need to rely on something like this.
Yes, I was floundering with that element of the process. With "regular" bread, the store-bought yeast is so powerful and predictable, I never had to think about this part. I will give that method a try!
Byron
I’ve posted before about how I use an aliquot jar if you’re interested in learning more. Since that time way back there are commercial products you can buy designed as aliquot jars that make the process a bit simpler. But you can still use the no cost method I shared.
Benny
I will try that - that's a great idea!
Last night's attempt was a thumbs up. I shortened the bulk rise to when it was about at a 50% rise, then let it stay in the Dutch oven covered for a little longer to let it rise there. The result was perfection. Now I just have to remember what I did to get there!
Thanks for everyone's help. I'm making pizza crust right now. Got some 00 flour to go in that. We'll see. The first time I made pizza crust, it was break-your-teeth tough!
:) So happy for you and share your excitement.
We made that last night and def need some tools - a pizza peel to start with! It was an all-day affair with the dough but the results were outstanding.
Here's the recipe I used:
https://www.abeautifulplate.com/sourdough-pizza/#comments
I'm sure there are other pizza dough recipes on this sight. The part I liked about this one was that it used a lot of starter. We're still talking about it and eating leftovers today!