Sourdough Rye, Finally
I had been happily baking reasonably good yeasted breads with high whole grain percentages, but I always looked enviously at the Sourdough Rye chapter in "Bread" by Hamelman. Then Mark Bittman came out with his sourdough book, and I gave it try, making very tasty frisbees. I got the B & T proofer, which helped, but mostly I got more frisbees from the B & T country sourdough recipe and some Hamelman levains.
So I finally remembered why I was doing sourdough in the first place and tried the 40% Caraway Rye in "Bread". It was easy (mix the sourdough in the evening and ferment overnight in the proofer), and mix, ferment, proof, and bake the final dough the next day, with nice short fermentations (about1 hr each bulk and proofing) and a less sticky more easily manageable dough compared to the sourdough levains, with no extra folding.
It came out very tasty, with a nice thick crusty crust, a tight but not solid crumb, and a little oven spring.
I am looking forward to trying the whole-rye/whole-wheat formula (50% whole grains) and eventually working up to the 66% and 80% ryes.
I don't doubt that the 3 stage Detmolder method makes great bread, but I think I'll stay with quick and easy for a while.
Any favorites from "The Rye Baker"?
here are two tremendously delicious yet simple ryes to try:
1. https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/13552/hansjoakim039s-favorite-70-sourdough-rye
2. http://theryebaker.com/berlin-ryeberliner-landbrot/
Don't be spooked that the formulas call for either medium rye or type 1050. Just use whole rye. They are fantastic breads ... almost foolproof to make ... and both get great oven spring.
Rob
Thanks, these look great
And liked it enough to make another to send to family. It uses instant yeast at the end, which makes it pretty reliable, but has a nice sour flavor from the sponge.
http://theryebaker.com/oldenburg-rye/
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That one looks really tasty. Another one for my to-do list!
Glad to hear you have had some success!
So far, my faves from The Rye Baker have been:
I have made the 70% Rye with Rye Soaker and Whole-Wheat Flour and the 80% Sourdough Rye with a Rye-Flour Soaker from Hamelman's Bread. Both turned out well. His instructions are ironclad.
Good luck!
Thanks for the feed back on TRB and the "Bread" formulas
this 100% rye is simple and simply marvelous -- though you'll have to journey to a home brewing store to get some pale rye malt:
http://theryebaker.com/latgalian-rye/
Rob
This one is fantastic, although it does have an unusual flavor relative to other ryes.
The dough's acidity is the most important thing to pay attention to with Rye. Too Acidic and you will get a brick, not acidic enough, and you will have bread that tastes like playdoh ( it will leave a sticky mess on your knife when you cut it)
To prevent this, I make most of my Rye Breads with Whey (I get the whey from making Greek-style yogurt) and a preferment sour: you can also use an active sourdough starter with the same effect.
From there, I loosely followed the steps you outlined in your post. I mix, let stand for 1/2 hr, and knead till a dough forms. Refrigerate overnight, rise and bake.
If you can get your hands on some First clear flour, you'll discover another layer of flavor. I bought a 50 lb bag, and even though it is just my wife and me eating the bread, I've used all but the last 10 lbs in the six months since I acquired it.
Thanks for the information. Our fridge is set to 39 F/ 4 C which, based on what I've read and observed with my rye culture, stops natural yeast fermentation dead in its tracks. I always bulk fermented commercial yeasted doughs overnight in the fridge with good success, but I don't think it would work with the sourdough.
I read up (again) on first clear flour. All the sources agree that it has great flavor and high protein, but not as high as high gluten flours (which I've seen suggested as a substitute, I think by Hamelman). With our kitchen cabinet & freezer stocked with AP (bench flour), bread flour, whole wheat, medium rye, whole rye, and some specialty stuff like buckwheat and chickpea flours (great for multigrain soakers), I think I'll just switch back to high gluten when I use up the bread flour.
BTW, rye sourdough discard makes great pancakes, crepes, and muffins.
there are lots of sourdough recipes that work well being cold fermented.
High %age ryes, though, are trickier -- perhaps because their fermentation can be amazingly rapid. I've made ryes where things were moving so fast that the final proof was no more than 15 minutes. Even if cold proofing "stops natural yeast fermentation dead in its tracks," it takes way more than 15 minutes for dough to hit a suitably low temperature in the fridge. For these breads, I fear that a night in the fridge risks serious overfermentation.
Rob
You are correct, of course, in pointing out the difference working with high percentage rye. I understand your concerns. All of my rye breads are 30 to 50% rye. The rest is first clear flour, perhaps some KA bread flour mixed in or for dusting the kneading board. It's not uncommon for me to add some ND malt to help feed my little friends. The whey I add is directly from the fridge, and the dough is put back in the fridge soon after it comes together, so my guys never really get up to room temperature.
Between the acidity and the cold, it can take a couple of hours in a proofer to get a full rise when I take the dough out of the fridge. The second rise after shaping is around 45 minutes or so.
While I love the taste that rye adds to my bread. I'm not crazy about the taste of breads with over 60% rye. I've been known to experiment, so when I do, I'll keep your advisements under consideration.
All proteins are not alike; think of substituting chicken for steak. While First Clear is high in protein, those extra proteins are not gluten. One can taste the difference.
While I add yeast to my dough, I doubt you would be able to taste a difference between the bread I produce with a rye sour and one made with traditional sourdough and wild yeast. The convenience of not needing to keep a feeding schedule and discards is helpful since I only make bread once or twice a week. If there were more than just the two of us eating it, I might have set things up differently, but now that I have this system, I don't know if I would bother even if I baked more often since the results are so similar.